So now we have punting being all about 'mathematical formula' .
OK, so any half decent shopkeeper [or maths teacher for that matter] should be a punting marvel !

Punting has never been about maths [any idiot can use a calculator]. Maths is involved sure, but so is breathing air. All the maths ability in the world won't tell you who is going to win the next race. If there was a maths formula for winning on the punt, everyone would have it by now and there'd be no punting industry.

Ahhh Crash,,the planets have collided.I agree with you. :))

We are up to post 120 in this thread and so far TheEasyRun has said nothing.

He has told us "what he is going to tell us" but so far he hasnt told us.

We have digressed into mathematical probabilities and possibilities,as Bob Dylan said,"There's a battle out there and it's raging".But so far,after 120 posts nothing of any consequence has emerged.

It's not a question of a new poster with new ideas being lambasted.Other than a couple of,"I can do such and such" statements, no new ideas have been forthcoming,and the whole thread has degenerated into something akin to an American soap opera.

Anyway I'm sure there are more episodes.

I agree and aren't most of us glued to our tele every night watching them [soap operas].

Hopefully TheInsideEdge will start a new thread when he continues. For blatantly obvious reasons.

Meanwhile, Crash,

the recent superiority of pragmatic mathematicians in this caper is now well-documented and cannot convincingly be disputed.

The really useful maths involved is not taught here in traditional institutions but thanks to the Internet those with the basics can eventually ferret the gems out.

If they persevere then AssumeTheCrown and maybe some other youngsters here can look forward to expiring as billionaires.

Those longer in the tooth can only aspire to a fraction of that.

[any idiot can use a calculator]

you havent met my missus have you crash. LOL

Crash I believe you are confusing picking winners with punting to make a profit.

Any idiot can pick winners, the challenge lies in making a profit and that is where the maths comes in.

I could pick 30 to 40% of winners and still lose because the odds are against me.

Maths is used to find the winners that are value.

The whole gambling industry revolves around maths as Shaun said, that's how bookies and Betfair "traders" make their profit.

While the actual handicapping is the first stage, it's all pointless if you can't make a profit from it.

I never said it was the only thing to punting, but it is a big part of it.

Don Scott used maths to find the best weighted horse in a race.

Many now use time ratings to work out the best prospect to bet on.

It is possible to pick winners and make a profit by just using maths, as it is possible to do the same with out maths.

Syallbus23, Glad to see you are fan of "The Man" from way back!!!!! you could also say "The loser now will later the Win", but there again I'm just a "Fanciful Twit"

NA!

[QUOTE=Chrome Prince]Crash, I believe you are confusing picking winners with punting to make a profit.
Any idiot can pick winners, the challenge lies in making a profit and that is where the maths comes in.
QUOTE]

Chrome,
You have the art of mis-direction down to a fine art [I said: 'any idiot can use a calculator' which you have mis-directed to mean: 'any idiot can pick winners' etc. etc.

Only you could interpret [imply] from my post that what I referred to as 'punting' in the context of my post, meant anything else than making a profit and then move smoothly into reverse gear back to maintaining punting is all about mathematical formula: 'The whole gambling industry revolves around maths as Shaun said, that's how bookies and Betfair "traders" make their profit'.

The whole universe revolves around maths, but as with many pastimes, maths won't make you a good living from it. See how good a golfer, chess player, surfboard rider or lawn bowls player [or 'successful' punter] you can become with your mathematical formulas chrome :-))

PS: I ain't never seen you shine here picking winners mate, but you sure talk about it a lot [of hot air?] :-),

No wonder the Big Easy Run has done just that,run like Hell!!What started out(and was mentioned by many)as a very interesting thread has degenerated into a slanging match.Just as an aside,anyone interested in the mathematical side should read Commonsense Punting by Rodger Dedman and Mathematically Speaking by Malcom Knowles.I personally use a mathematical formula to work out approx. divs for my trifectas,NOT as a selection method,and yes,I am one of "those idiots"that has to use a calculator.

crash,

It wasn't misdirected at all, I was answering your generalization with the same mindset.
You don't need to use maths to be a good golfer, chess player, surfboard rider, lawn bowls player, nor handicapper.

You do need it to make a profit from that handicapping.

As for your wind up with the smiley face - I ain't biting.

You obviously never saw the $18,000 thread that disappeared.

The best stuff I keep to myself, the stuff in progress or trialled, I put here or in competitions as a live test.

Have you even bothered to look at the numerous threads I let disappear into the abyss because they are in huge profit?

Come off it chrome, don't tell me you whack up 18k profit systems here and they disappear ? The only things that disappear here are duds.

Smiley face ? OK lets have a little comp., my handicapping against your mathematical formulas. How can you lose when you keep insisting handicapping without mathematical formulas can't make a profit?

Come on mate, lets have a bit of fun and you get the big chance to show me up and demonstrate in the real world how good mathematical formulas are at making a profit on the punt :-),

Why is it that threads on open forums generally decline into slanging matches?

Now where are those piegeons?, 'cos here comes a big fat cat.......

Turnover for Tuesday/Wednesday.........$13178
Profit.........$415

Risk......(wait for it....) nil.
Bank $800

All using maths, no form, no handicapping, no risk.

Having said that, I believe that maths is not the only way to go, but it is my weapon of choice.

Crash, the thread was actually pulled after I posted my bets and profit because someone complained.

How long do you want to run the comp for?

I'm not interested in running a short comp where the guy (you or me) who flukes a few longies wins. I'd rather have one where the winner has showed a longterm profit.

You also have me quite wrong crash. You have misinterpreted what I was getting at. Maths is part of it - a huge part. I never suggested that maths alone nor handicapping alone would make a profit. What I did suggest is that both are needed.

Not no maths required nor no handicapping required.

I understand that you have no time for systems, just old fashioned handicapping, but you fail to grasp that somewhere within every one of my "mathematical systems" (and I use the term loosely) lies sound handicapping principles.

Some would say that using speed maps or backmarkers versus on pacers dependant upon barrier draw is not traditional handicapping, that either time or class handicapping is the be all and end all.

There does not have to be one or the other, what I'm saying is that neither is good enough without consideration of the other.

I'm talking win betting not laying or fielding or anything else, just straight out traditional punting.

Or would you still bet on the backmarker @ 20/1 if it were Even money and no value????

Oh, by the way, hve a look at the thread I updated a few months ago after posting it a few years ago where I said "Is nobody using this system, it's killing them".
There are numerous other threads I let sink because they win, sure there are some that don't, but the vast majority are in very big profit.

At least I consistently post tips here, win lose or draw.

I seem to remember you posting some tips, but stopped.

Can i have some of what you are on sir? No risk.... please why post such nonsense?

mv2040,

Turnover for Tuesday/Wednesday.........$13178
Profit.........$415

This is very possible.

I suspect I know how he is doing it and it has definitely sparked my interest ....

Good Luck...

Mark....don't bite at that....remember the last time you posted your thoughts.

Yes those numbers certainly are possible but "no risk"? I think not.

Here we go again lads.
"I can't do it therefore no-one can"

Guess what MV, NO RISK. At no time was there ever any risk. If there was, I wouldn't do it.

Mark, unless you are backing every single horse in the race to a book less than 100% there is a risk. Or even if you are trading on betfair there still is risk, all be it minimum, but risk never the less.

If there was NO risk why wouldnt you sell your house and all of your assets and triple or quadruple your daily profits?

Because those that take the bets wouldn't let this happen.

or there may be not enought liquidy to support this, i always say be happy with a little over a long time instead of trying to get a lot over a little time.

This is the number one reason most punters fail, the greed factor.

Who is Theeasyrun? What secrets have we really learned from Theeasyrun? But look at all the posts and hits this thread has got. About 150 posts already!!!

A bit more mis -direction there chrome [implying because they were losing]?
You know very well why I stopped my thread 'off crash's cuff' and so does everyone else. And by the way, if you check the closing figures the POT was just over 20% [flat stakes] for a lot of 'real' bets posted in advance.

Yes, some maths were involved in the selection process but mostly good old fashioned handicapping but with a modern high tec. flavour, that the Internet age has made possible.

Anyway, this thread has been great fun [a soap opera?]. All of my posts generally and to anyone in particular have been tongue in cheek [and gee em up] comments. The thread has been a breath of fresh air for this punter at least.

I doubt we will hear more from our mysterious thread starter or his punting secrets. Fact is, in the end profitable punting involves a lot of subjective judgment at some point in the process, because for every known fact you can put a definite value on, there are 10 more you can't and that's were this game becomes an art, not a science.

If our mysterious punter had finished this thread with his part II or even part III, there would be a lot of disappointment here anyway. Nobody can put down in print [or formula] in a punting thread that second and most important part of punting ...the art of it.

Cheers.

It was not my intention to hijack this thread so this will be may last word on the matter.

MV, show me where I said anything about backing or trading.
As for doubling or quadrupling, you can only take what's available. Your statement shows a distinct lack of knowledge as to what I'm doing.

Cheers, and keep that mind closed.

You're not prepared to disclose what you're doing.

So how are you entitled to chastise those incapable of mindreading?

For the record Mark is arbitraging. Like many others. I'd consider that trading.

Of course there's no risk as all in Mark's former profession of bookmaking are scrupulously honest. You'll always be able to snare what's apparently offered. And no one would ever try to throw a curly by welching on a sealed deal and not paying up.

Another knocker...........also wrong. No trading involved.

I'll stick to my exile, just not worth battling the losers.


Hey Shaun, had to give away backing the lot, got banned by the English bookies. Opened several accounts under different names but it became too cumbersome. LAYING on Betfair is much easier.

Mark,

I don't believe people here are "knocking" you as such.

Over time many people making all sorts of claims regarding profit making methods come and go. For this reason most regulars have become sceptics.

I would be great if someone like yourself, who has made a claim, would back it up with some evidence.

Possibly explaining what you are doing without giving away all the secrets, will appease the sceptics.

Brad

This is cyber space.

Anyone is free to make any claim they like. The only evidence of successful punting I believe is what I see in this forum printed before a race. Not how convincing a a post sounds. Results that can be added up as loss or profit by anyone. Everything else is hot air or at best hearsay and perhaps a few desperate ego's looking for social strokes as far am I and probably many other forum readers here are concerned.

A lot of posters knock this thread for being boring and full of tipsters, but at least, regardless of whether they are winning or losing, the tipsters have the courage and interest to 'put up'.

As for the rest of the claims we hear in this cyberspace ....anyone can claim anything they like about how big or successful a punter they are, but it's only here in the 'locker room' exposed to all and sundry, real measurements can be taken if needed to verify claims made :-)

crash, you know I reckon if we met we'd get on famously because we are both passionate about the punt, just come from different angles.

I was not implying they were losing. I was implying it's rare that you actually post tips.

Sometimes when one comment rubs a person the wrong way, everything written after that is taken in the same vain.

It was not intended that way.

You take the cake Chrome. You quote the first part of the above post and tell me to lighten up? You obviously never bothered to read the second half. Or then again maybe you did but wanted to carry on with a bit of mischief :-))

Anyone rembember the kids show with the hand puppet Lambchops??

They have a song in it that goes.....

"This is a song that never ends,
It goes on and on my friend,
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue singing it forever, just be-cause......

This is a song that never ends,
It goes on and on my friend,
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue singing it forever, just be-cause......

This is a song that never ends.................."

And that's exactly why I edited my post, because I just knew you'd take it the wrong way again.

I give up :(

That made me laugh. Thanks Stix

Would some please be so kind as to give us forumites the holy grail so this thread can finally be put to bed :)

Were not all going to agree......

Hey Mark...sounds like the same problem Stuart had to a lesser degree.

I will have to send you some of my ideas you may be able to come up with the answers i am missing, it involves using two different bet types and hedging them against each other for a positive outcome.

To those who have doubts about Marks statements, I have seen evidence of what he does and how he makes a profit, in some emails he sent me when he was helping me out with questions about betfair. His profit on turnover isnt big but it is no risk. Also if the eayrun is still with us please continue to post your thoughts. At least wait till he's posted everything before knocking him.

Please note:

Posters are entitled to ask whether a betting method stacks up mathematically. People are entitled to disagree with a post and substantiate their position.

An inability to understand the maths of racing and handicapping, or a lack of interest in that area is fair enough.

But that does not give a poster the right here to accuse others who believe maths is important for understanding racing and handicapping of making a "personal slanging match" because they raise these issues. Nor is name calling acceptable.

Moderator.

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Once more I've trawled through this thread before presenting my considered contribution.

One clear offender throughout this is Chrome Prince. But rather than this regular being cautioned for his violation of the T&C he continues unhampered. Meanwhile some of those rightly challenging him have mysteriously vanished.

On repeated occasions he presented such edicts:




All this before TheEasyRun had an opportunity to mention what "it" actually was.

Where was the substantiation?

And when first Sahasastar, then I, presented alternate valid mathematical demonstrations how it can be done, he made no effort to learn from that and mend his ways.

There is no point in repeating the T&C when certain regulars are permitted to flaunt their disregard for them or any common decencies.