TAB merger of pools
 

G'day all

I read with interest the machinations going on with the suitors of UNITAB and the rumblings with the merger of pools with STAB....

I have a couple of questions, I was hoping someone could answer:

What does that mean to the average punter ?

1. i.e. bigger pool = bigger dividend? and is the same true for exotics? (esp. my pet exacta bet)
2. would it be reasonable to assume that fixed price and "best" price facilities will also adjust accordingly?
3. will the merged pools dicourage "sting" betting (Like the Greyhound sting a little while back)?
4. Would the takeout be expected to fall?

Thanks In Advance

1: This is a fallacy - the dividends will not be bigger, they could be more stable though. Given that those exotics that have a Flexi bet option, they could be even smaller as the Flexi becomes more popular & more punters get to have a slice of the payout cake.
2: Not sure what you exactly mean but if we have a national pool then the only tote price will also be the 'best (tote) price" - not sure how the corporate bookies will handle this but they will probably offer tote price plus.
3: Even with merged pools, many of the greyhound pools will be on the small size so don't really see it discouraging punters like Eddie Heyson (the greyhound sting man).
4: More likely the takeouts will go up rather than down - with no competition in the tote markets & state governments that have budget shortfalls (like NSW), why would they go down? The NSW government have already stated that they want Tabcorp to underwrite any shortfalls in the state revenue should the government permit co-pooling of the Vic & NSW pools. Tabcorp also put it to the NSW government a few months ago that they wanted the overall takeout raised from 16% to 16.5%.

I know that others will disagree with me, but I've thought for ages that we should have just one national tab. It just seems so damn stupid to me to have three separate sets of dividends and all the different sets of bet types from state to state.

i dont disagree sportz i couldnt think of a better way mate

You obviously don't bet 'best tote' with a corporate bookie like I do Sportz. It's a good product with some nice overs available. Can't see any advantages in a national pool for the average punter.

I say yes to Sportz we need a national tab not what we have now.....i agree there will be some diadvantages but think of the advantages.

the pools will be bigger with this affect payouts...could be but there will be more mug money in the pools.

You won't have one of those corporate bookies tell you "sorry we are not accepting your bets anymore" just because you are a winner they are doing that more and more these days and that is for as little as $200 bets.

We will staill have competition from the bookies ,betfair,Austote and since we have licensed the above we will have more companies wanting to get in on the action.

The take out is bad i agree but i can walk in to any Tab and lay down $1000 or more on a bet and not have some one say a word about it to me.....i can also walk in a collect that bet with no questions and no one knowing who i am.

La Mer,

Sorry mate, but the "average punter" certainly doesn't bet best tote. They probably don't even know that any such thing exists. The average punter ONLY bets at their local tab, pub or club and gets the dividend that Unitab, NSWTab or Supertab gives them. And they often grumble when they see a bigger dividend on one of the other tabs.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

I guess by "Best Price (Tote)", I mean where IAS guarantee pay a dividend higher (beat) at least 2 of the totes.

As for 3 different divvies, it works for me and my exacta bets, with UNITAB "usually" paying better dividends than the other two toes. I'm sure for the WIN punters it would provide a better environment.

I was thinking the take outs would increase, which I suppose would affect the "average" punter more than the more "astute" or "environmentally aware" punter , that's why I was wondering about "best price"......

Interesting times coming up...... especially with re-licensing as well....

Many bookies offer best tote stix. Ias only pay more than 2 where a lot of the others simply pay you the best of the three totes for both win and place. It makes a big difference.

Thanks L2B

I picked IAS as an example..... and your right it sure makes a big difference.

Those variences can make a good day better or an bad day bearable !! ;)

Bigger pools, bigger payouts???? There will also be more WINNERS so payouts won't change but goodbye best tote and just watch the takeout go up. Less competition always means you pay more. Just go to your local supermarket and look at the price of cabbages:-)

The likes of you and I have probably be around longer than some of the others Crash. You can't tell 'em sometimes. Whenever has less (competition) mean more (for the punter). Never, ever & it never will!! :)

Explain to me where you get less competition from?

If you refer to best tote then yes that may change but i am sure the online services will come up with somthing new to attract the punters.

You always have the option of best fluctuation the tabs are not now and never have been in competition with each other, when you are in a Tab you have no choice to where to place your money.

the tabs do not rely on the stay at home punter for business and you tell me how many stay at homes have accounts in different states.

the racing industry needs change and if one tab is what it takes then lets get it on.

you only have to look overseas at the industries in those countries to see what one tab with do and they don't have half the options we do with online betting.

Which bookies pay best tote? I'm at IAS (amoungst others) but wouldn't mind changing. I could investigate this myself i suppose, but if someone has an answer i'll be happy. Secondly the price of cabbage is absolutely ridiculous, nearly as bad a Bannannanannnaaannna's.

Just about all of them offer the service best to do a search for them i refer Sportsbet because they offer best of 3 for city meetings and best of 2 for provicial and country but take a look around you will find one you like.

When three tote pools become one Shaun, that's less competition.

While it may have been the case in the past, the totes thru mobiles but mainly the internet are increasingly in competition with one another. In fact it is only thru the internet that the tote operators have been able to grow, or more precisely maintain, there revenue levels (they have for some time being losing market share).

Can't answer for others, but I have four tab accounts & I know of others who have the same or @ least three accounts.

Alright, I might not be the average punter (I don't frequent tab's or pubtabs for one thing) & operate from home but IMO it will be all punters who will lose out under a national tote operation.

Just name me one industry where less competition has been good for the customer. I don't know of any. Remember Telestra when it was known as Telecom, when it had little or no competition?

Just as an aside: close to where I live there is an Aldi store, which as you may know sell groceries & other household goods very cheaply. One item they sell is bottled water for 65 cents for 1.25 litres. The nearby Coles & Bi-Lo used to sell the same sized bottles of water for 82 cents (before Aldi opened) - no more they don't, it's now 65 cents. Five kms away is another Coles, with no competition from an Aldi store & they still sell the same bottled water for 82 cents. Repeat that for hunderds is not thousands of items & it makes a difference to the weekly grocery bill.

That's why competition is good, that's why having the option of three totes is good - it's called competition!!!

I understand exactly what you are refering to and yes in some ways you are correct but since i have turned all my betting activity to the internet and away from tabs i no longer use my tab accounts unless i am after an exotic bet not offered.

The online services of other sites a far better than the tab would ever offer so why use the tab, IMO there are two kinds of punters, online punters and offlines punters..

To use the situation you put forward with the supermarkest there used to be good competition from the smaller chain of markets like supervalue, foodland and what ever else your state has over here in the west it is "Action" these stores have been losing out to the big boys for a long time because of the market share so instead of trying to compeat in there own market they joined together to create IGA this is nation wide and alowes them to buy at a cheaper price to offer a cheaper price.

The tabs are trying to buy each other out right now and when somone owns them all they will relise it is in the best interest to make one Tab it is not a matter of IF it is just a Matter of WHEN.

Gday all

now i might be a bit dull, but having one TAB.. wouldn't that mean that there would be only one 18% take out instead of 3... Wouldnt that necessarily mean (if the pools combine) that the divs have to be bigger on average? AS i said I am a bit dull tho.. Ofcourse the takeout maximum would have to be protected by law to stop the single tab from screwing the punter..

For the record... I like having 4 tote accounts and getting the best tote price, much of the time... sometimes it doesnt work out that way with the small pools tho.. they sometimes move dramatically at the death and I sometimes get caught with less than best tote... but I guess thats life..

I still use the totes because I do like a bet on Vic Racing and Betfair doesnt bet on Vic Racing... and looking at some betfair markets at times the fancied runners are nearly TAB or Corporate prices anyway

You can always open up an account (if you don't have one already) with a corporate bookie, such as Sportsbet, that offers a best tote product.

As an example race 2 @ Moe today the winner Homeland Sheila paid SP $6.00; Top Fluc $7.00; Unitab $7.10; Supertab $8.70 & Racetab (NSW) $13.20!!

Why is there three takeouts of 18% (actually the overall takeout is 16%, but the takeouts from the various pools differ, e.g. 14.5% from the Win pools, 21% from the Trifecta pools)?

La mer

I watch a certain site that all day every day gives you constant updates of the percentage being bet on the win pools.. CONSISTENTLY the 3 Mainland Totes bet between 117 and sometimes 119 % Austote normally bets about 109%

Now you can call the takeout 14% fine that is what they say (the TABS that is, but the markets don't lie, nor do maths)... where does the other 3 to 4% go?

As an Example I will use R2 Moe the one you have quoted earlier

STAB 117.5%
NSW TAB 118.6%
UNITAB 117.4%

No 114% markets there.... Those are all win market % bet by the 3 mainland TABS on Moe R2 Today

There are 3 takeouts because there are 3 TOTES who are entitled to an individual take out... If they are combines wouldnt they only be entitled to 1 takeout?

xpt, there is a difference to take-outs & market percentages, which is what your figures are above.

Take-out is the amount the tote operators deduct from each dollar invested, so in the case of win pools, it is 14.5 cents in the dollar.

Therefore, the basic market percentage becomes 100-14.5=85.5; 14.5/85.5=16.95 or 116.95%. The differences between 116.95 & the amounts shown above in your example are due to the affects of the 'rounding-down' of dividends.

Still not sure how you can state that the dividends will become (on average) bigger with one combined pool. The maths do not really change - the take-out & market percentage will stay (all other things being equal) as they are. In fact, on short-priced favourites, in particular, win or place, the returns to the tote operator could increase, which means that there would be less to payout to winning punters.