Hong Kong Sunday
 

HK's biggest racing day of the year, with the likes of Miss Andretti, Dylan Thomas (world's highest rated active turf horse), Viva Macau, Viva Pataca, Floral Pegasus, Vengeance of Rain etc all going around, should be a great day

Race 1: 3 One World*, 6 Sure Joy, 10 Double Luck, 12 Rocket Power
Race 2: 1 Sir Ernesto*, 3 Gold Striker, 8 River Jordan
Race 3: 2 Inspiration*, 4 High Point, 12 Step to Win
Race 4: 1 Absolute Champion, 2 Benbaun, 3 Sacred Kingdom*, 13 Miss Andretti*
Race 5: 1 Dylan Thomas*, 2 Quijano, 3 Red Rocks, 4 Doctor Dino,
Race 6: 1 Win Practitioner, 2 Dash Ahead, 5 Mutual Fun*
Race 7: 6 Floral Pegasus*, 7 Good Ba Ba, 10 Excellent Art, 13 Darjina
Race 8: 1 Ramonti, 2 Vengeance of Rain, 3 Viva Pataca*
Race 9: 1 Excellent Boy, 2 Skyview Bar, 5 Sunny King, 7 Joy and Fun*
Race 10: 1 Singing Diners*, 3 Shangdong General, 4 Eight Plus Nine, 14 Special Days

EDIT: * represents top pick in each race

hi chuck
good luck with those
what does the "*" represent mate?

top pick in each race, probably should have made that clear :)

Hard to go past Miss Andretti ,,she looks fantastic,,2.60 is short enough but i like her and think she'll give that track record a shake..

i think its very difficult to split Miss Andretti and Sacred Kingdom.....SK's last run was very impressive, barely broke a sweat, and has the home turf.....but i think MA just has the class advantage, the only problem being she has never run clockwise apart from her work in quarantine...should be a great race

sunny sing looks a great chance today.

Hong Kong racing = very very dodgy class of horses.
I've refuse to bet since day 1
Bookies could make a fortune over there.
The odds of horse getting up there on average would out do any other course in the world....surely?
Its got nothing to do with the place being 'well governed' in the stewards / rorts dept either. Its because the horse flesh is so ordinary that theres very little consistency and anything can win.
Dont let the glamour and big HK$ influence you. It doesnt take much of a horse to stand out over there.
AUSTRALIAN provincial horses could win their races very very easily

oops got the times mixed up,,,What happened to Miss Andretti ???

Mav

I did listen to the race to follow our contigent (most of the field). A no gain plan that backfired badly >> Time will tell the story to Miss Andretti, as she's beyond this class of horse...i would say that its pretty obvoius there was a problem to be beaten the distance she was.
They should just keep them all here in Australia and run it here where its fair and let the HKJC sponsor it..
The winner Sacred Kingdom who was born in N.S.W. killed them. Absolute champion who was also bred in N.S.W. and formerly raced as 'Genius & Evil' came 2nd and Royal Delight who was bred in QLD came third. Scintillation (NSW born) came 4th.....i could go on but i think you get the drift.....

Again, the glamour of Hong Kong is a sucker to some but at the end of the day its just some Australian provincial horses running around in another country. If some of those races today were here they would rate to a Metro mid- week meeting and nobody would raise an eyebrow. As for any other Sunday in HK ....well Moe, Townsville, Grafton would be close to the mark

I listened on with interest to a fellow wishing to sell me a share in a horse not long ago. The plan was to win a race in the provincials then we would be able to sell it straight to Hong Kong.......its the thinking of many.

she overaced a lot, tried to go too fast the whole way, it was all newitt could do to keep her in 3rd/4th....when it got to the turn she just had nothing left and faded to near last

Let's not take anything away from Sacred Kingdom's win.
All the big money here was on SK because on form, it's a better horse than MA.

not too bad in the end with the winner in 7 out of 10 races, unfortunately managed to profit of Miss Andretti - when i saw the HK bookies had special kingdom at $1.30-$1.40, evens seemed pretty good value

Race 1: 10 Double Luck 2nd $1.90

Race 2: 8 River Jordan 1st $4.90 & $2.00

Race 3: 4 High Point 1st $4.00 & $1.70, 2 Inspiration* 2nd $2.20

Race 4: 3 Sacred Kingdom* 1st $2.00 & $1.20, 1 Absolute Champion 2nd $1.80,

Race 5: 4 Doctor Dino 1st $11.00 @ $2.30, 2 Quijano 2nd $2.50

Race 6: 1 Win Practitioner 2nd $2.30, 5 Mutual Fun* 3rd $2.70

Race 7: 7 Good Ba Ba 1st $4.20 & $2.00, 13 Darjina 3rd $2.60

Race 8: 1 Ramonti 1st $3.80 & $2.00, 3 Viva Pataca 2nd $2.00

Race 9: 5 Sunny King 1st $1.90 & $1.30, 7 Joy and Fun 3rd $2.00

Race 10: 14 Special Days 3rd $2.30

Chuck

Nice going....i hope you dont get audited by the A.T.O though with "7/10 winners"


One World* Unp
Sir Enesto* Unp
Inspiration* 2nd
Sacred Kingdon* $2.00w
Dylan Thomas* unp
Mutual Fun* 3rd
Floral Pegasus* Unp
Viva Pataca* 2nd
Joy & Fun* 3rd
Singing Diners* Unp

1 winner 10 outlay 2 return. if you wanted us to back all your selections as your taking credit for then its -3.2 return.

Crash,
SK wa the better horse under the conditions, on the day, no doubt about it...and donkey licked them to boot.
The 'on form' bit >> i dont know how you can compare the form but perhaps you can so....
I would have put some influence of the market down to home crowd hero & reports of MA 'stirred up' all day...

Now..... your opinion, & i'm not after a debate as until the day ever came we can do all the yacking about it with no evidence. However >>> With Lee saying the horse was stirred up all day and didnt handle the way of going in race conditions and taking the travelling factor into account >>> If MA + SK were to race in Australia under MA conditions e.g. travelling SK over here and make her go her unnatural way of going in Melb..who do you think would win? Do you think SK is the better horse out of Hong Kong?

??? i was merely showing the results of those that had won/placed....i wasn't crediting myself with a 100% place s/r :p ....... no the top picks didnt go that well but i ended the day in front with some other good results....

ending the day in front is what its all about i spose chuck.

Out come the excuses for MA. If MA had the perfect run with all the chances going for her, she would have been beaten by a better horse. Anyone who had actualy done the form would have agreed and I'm sure the big money on Sacred Kingdom did the form!

My rating source had Sacred Kingdom [57kg] on 22 points, Miss Andretti [55.5kg] on 17 points along with Royal Delight [57kg] on 17.

Form: Sacred Kingdom had 8 starts at the track for 7 wins and 3 starts at the distance for 2 wins. Win rate 87% Place 87%. Average earnings of $770,300 per race. Best time over the 1200m distance on a good track: 1.07.50 [last start]. Average over 3 runs on good 1200m 1.07.79


Miss Andretti: Career starts 28:19-3-2 (W 67% P 86%. This distance [1200m] 18:13-1-1
Average earnings: $625.500. Best time over 1200m. 1.07.74 Average over 3 runs on good 1200m: 1.09.33

MA taking out track records over there? Pigs might fly first.

From the above form, it doesn't take Rocket science to work out why the big money was on
Sacred Kingdom. A faster horse on average by more than 1/2 a dozen lengths!

It wouldn't have mattered if MA had had 6 mths to settle in. SK is still on the way up after only 8 starts. MA is slower now and will never get any better after 28 starts. Will go on to win more money but not against SK over 1200m.

if we reversed the situation ,, Miss A (fresh) around Moonee Valley ?? would be interesting...
I know alot of people are bagging Froggy but after watching the replay she just never seemed to travel ,,,
thought Viva Pataca unlucky,,just didnt want to go between horses and then the gap closed,,,real good horse and hope he comes to Oz next year..
great Ride on Good Ba Ba ,,like this jockey...

I'm struggling in my own backyard to pick winners ,,dont know why the heck i was having a go over there :)

Crash


Comparing times in 2 different countries...hehehehe.....where our tracks are much healthier in the layer of turf we race on compared to Hong Kong. Comparing SK race strike rate in Hong Kong against those donkeys to MA 's in Australia against the worlds best sprinters.

Maverick gets it << the intitial question that is.

You didnt answer it....just babbled about stats from 2 different countries on a race already run and won which we all know about....which wasnt the question.

I dont bet on Hong Kong let alone follow Miss Andretti so i dont make excuses.....if you think travelling to a different country, getting the outside barrier on that course & asking to go CW when its not natural doesnt effect a horse then i shouldnt be asking you for opinions (that you dont answer anyway) You only have to go look at decent horses like off the top of my head >> Chief de beers, that a change of track a few km's away makes a massive difference to its comfort levels & performance, going the same way, etc etc etc.... let alone what what travelling horses deal with.....

To suggest...if thats what this is.... that he could come here and beat Miss Andretti on her terms soley based on stats from 2 different countries racing times and not even touch on the surface difference when compiling those times is a touch green in the education dept when 1) refering to Australias best sprinter and 2) not even knowing how SK goes outside Hong Kong.
mmmmmmm......a HK 'superhorse' to fail outside its environment...is that possible? << any WITNESSES to this comment or have i just hit some BULLSIH luck?

Forget it, finished....

to better educate Crash about how time ratings over countries compare based upon all environmental factors including thickness of turf see below"

Caulfield 1200m record 1:07:74
Sandown Lakeside 1:08:97
Old Sandown 1:09:30
Randwick 1:08:36
Warwick Farm 1:08:60
Rosehill 1:08:39

i wont bother to keep going

Sha TIn 1:07:50

According to Crash.............this horse is many many lengths better then any horse to ever run in Australia....simply because of times and a strike rate .....against horses that we sell there because most arent up to our standards

I could play marbles on the Sha Tin surface.

Smugness doesn't suit here.

1200m Miss Andretti 1-07.74 56kg 10/03/2007 [MV]. Yes and no big deal considering it's probably the fastest track in Australia. That time was clocked on a far superior [re-built] track to the old Valley track. Strewth, it even has banked corners!

Comparing MA's Valley time with other Australian tracks is comparing apples to oranges.

MA has looked good here in Oz because she hasn't had any real competition. We are suffing the biggest load of slow horses Aust. has ever seen. Just rubbish, with only a few stand-outs.

Back in the real world and away from theory or wishful thinking, MA got done like a dinner. Get over it!

I'm having a great run backing the kids whose names end in G. Don't laugh but they're always underbet for obvious reasons, have grown up on the track & can obviously ride.
I've no specific plan of attack so loosely avoid the huge priced ones (60-70 bucks) & those at less than 10s but there are the odd exceptions to the shorter rule especially if I do it at 11s on jump time but mysteriously Stab ends with a $7 pay!! Often they all have a ride but I rarely need do them all. Food for thought anyway guys with 6 out of 7 so far today.

Times can be very deceptive, some of the best times are run by horses that have not been subject to pressure in a race, they win in slick time and crumble as soon as pressure is applied.

I don't believe Moonee Valley is faster than Sandown nor Brisbane, nor Perth tracks.

A look at track records of just about any track, reveals the lack of quality about the winners.
Open class horses running track records, Class 6 horses breaking track records.
Of these horses, very few go on to be successful at Group level.

But as an exercise, here's the average time per 100m over 1200m races at each track...

Doomben 5.84
Flemington 5.85
Eagle Farm 5.87
Caulfield 5.88
Morphettville 5.90
Randwick 5.90
Rosehill 5.90
Ascot 5.92
Warwick Farm 5.92
Canterbury 5.94
Old Sandown 5.98
Belmont 6.01
Moonee Valley 6.02
Sandown Lakeside 6.04

Doomben being the fastest, Lakeside followed by Moonee Valley the slowest.

A couple of caveats, this is raw data, not adjusted for class nor going.
Your drier tracks and Group 1 tracks etc are biased to faster times already, adjusted for class and going, Sandown is hands down the fastest track around.

Good tracks over 1200m, number in brackets is average race prizemoney - it tells a story.

Flemington 5.81 ($176,843)
Doomben 5.82 ($34,683)
Caulfield 5.83 ($108,288)
Eagle Farm 5.85 ($31,267)
Morphettville 5.85 ($41,073)
Randwick 5.86 ($76,414)
Rosehill 5.86 ($128,874)
Ascot 5.87 ($46,459)
Warwick Farm 5.88 ($48,164)
Old Sandown 5.89 ($32,479)
Canterbury 5.90 ($31,831)
Moonee Valley 5.93 ($53,930)
Sandown Lakeside 5.94 ($34,047)
Belmont 5.99 ($28,087)

Just wondering how this thread got so off topic as I haven't read the rest of it :confused: