Form guides
 

Hi all, a little while since I posted on this site. Does anyone know of an online formguide that would give you how many lengths a horse was from the leader at the 600m mark. Sure I know formguides would tell you 6th at 600 etc. But would there be any that would actually tell you how far off the leader at that point.

Regards, Paul

yeah that would be nice Paul
some sites give you photo-shots of the field at turn & finish
this can be useful

Thanks for your reply Kumite, which site/s give you this. I feel that the strongest one single bit of form is the tempo of the race. I've been analysing sectional times for about 5 years now, and it's the only way I seem to be able to come out ahead. I've got a spreadsheet with a lot of factors built into it which I copy and paste the sectional times from Sydney and Melbourne meetings after each saturday and watch the replays at the same time.

Take Metal Bender who won on saturday paying $16. Previous start ran 3rd at Rosehill over 1300m running second last all the way, and come home in 33.91/22.42 in a very slowly run race. If it was a fast run race that would be expected, but certainly not in a slowly run race. These don't happen often, but they do now and then.

Doing this allows me to put horses into my bb to back next start. But if certain form was available appertaining to say how many lengths a horse was off the leader at the 600, and things like this, I feel one could rate the entire field based on their last start. I don't know if this would even be feasible even if it could be done.

But like I said I do reckon tempo is the strongest key to a race. I had a break from this for some months, got back into it in February, have had 84 bets since then for an overall S/R of 33%, a race S/R of 48% (more than one bet in some races) and a POT of 63%.

Food for thought,

Regards, Paul

Hi Pauls123

If you haven't already, take a look at turn times on
http://www.horseracinggold.com/Hors...g-Article-3.htm
and sectional info on
http://www.dailysectionals.com.au/

These may have some info related to your quest. Good luck.

Hi and thanks for that Rails Run. That first site you gave me, I just read the first article, very indepth stuff there. But where in Australia do we get that sort of info. I'll have a read of the other articles on that site also, they seem to be a good read.

The second site you gave me, yes I already found that one. When I looked at it, I thought to myself, this isn't any better really than what I come up with myself.

Just talking about "tempo's" of a race, jockeys must have a stopwatch in their brain. Take my comments on Metal Bender's previous run where I said it was run at a slow tempo. The average of the first 3.5 sectionals was 7% slower than the average of the final 3 sectionals. After looking at countless sectionals over the years, the initial sectionals compared to the last 3 are always somewhere in the range of 2% faster to about 9% slower. And those race callers are brilliant also. Watching the replay of a race, and looking at my spreadsheet, the race caller comments on the tempo of a race and it pretty well is exactly what my figures are telling me.

Paul

Foxtel iQ and a stopwatch unfortunately! Maybe someone here can enlighten us.

sportsman site - at a cost (camera charts)

http://www.thesportsman.com.au/cameracharts.html

racing & wagering wa - free

http://www.rwwa.com.au/cris/default.aspx

If you are looking at the Daily Sectionals website what you probably can't see is the IVR information or Incremental Velocities. This information is gold and would provide you with exactly what you are looking for. It is not free but for the time that Vince puts into the data it would be expected to be free.

Thanks Kumite and Mattio. Mattio by your comments that "it is not free but would expect it to be free", your saying that the info provided isn't really worth paying for,..?

I've got an idea buzzing around in my old brain where one should be able to rate a full field if the right info was supplied in formguides, info relating to what I put on here earlier on. However with nothing like that being supplied, the idea will just have to stay at the back of my brain.

An idea like this would be in addition to my current sectional time stuff following every saturday meeting in sydney and melbourne. Saturday I was a bit stiff, I had 4 horses in my bb in the Australian Derby at Randwick. Laser Hawk, Ocean Park (scratched), Silent Achiever and Polish Knight. I also had Ethiopia in, but deleted it as it hadn't raced within a 21 day period, something I must seriously review now. All these horses were in as a result of their previous run so far as sectionals/tempo etc, were concerned.

I backed the 3 of them, but had a gut feeling I shouldn't have deleted Ethiopia (it was entered for a race subsequent to its last start but didnt get a run being first emergency). So I put it into a quinella and trifecta with the other 3, which of course all got up.

Food for thought,..!

Paul

Sorry Paul, I wrote "expect to be free" when I meant to write "Not expect to be free"....that is what happens when I am up till all hours I guess.

Thanks for peoples posts on this thread.

I first really started looking at the Sunday Herald Sun (here in Melbourne) camera charts for the Melbourne racing two weeks ago which includes a 400m photo and a finish photo.

Of course THE VERY NEXT WEEK (last week) they drop the 400m photo which is the one I was interested in. :rolleyes: Talk about my usual luck.

I started a black book on the R&S site and some of those horses from 2 weeks ago ran yesterday in Melbourne.

I bet in 4 races with 2 horses picked in 2 of the races. So 6 horses and ended up with 3 winning races for a profit of +16.95 units after commission on Betfair. Winners were Playwright at $9.80, Eraset at $13 and Rock Hit at $1.48.

I think it was total beginners luck but I was hoping to at leas continue analyzing photos from the 400m and finish and trying to work out (IMO) if a horse should be backed or layed next start.

The WA site that has been given out is okay as it says what position a horse is at the turn, etc however it doesn't show how far behind they were at those points.

Does anyone know if there is any free resource that shows the 400m photo and finish like the Sunday herald sun used to?

Hi The Ocho,

I like to watch the racing replays on the racing network website:

Racing Network Replays

The replays are free for 48 hours and you can watch all Melbourne metro and some Sydney races.

I like to watch the races and note the runs that I like. I then check out their form on the R + S website and if I think they've still got improvement this prep, I blackbook them.

I hope this is of some assistance.

The Schmile

Hi, If I could find a site that gave me all the information I mentioned when I originally put this thread up, I am sure I could come up with some sort of a rating method. However I cant,...!

If you have a telstra T Box, all the racing for Sydney and Melbourne is archived in it and you can watch replays at any time. I do this all the time in conjuction with using the sectional times and have various formulas to tell me the tempo of a race and how many lengths each horse in the race gained or lost on the winner over the final 600/400/200.

I also backed Eraset yesterday, previous start it was 7th at the 600 and gained 2.5L on the winner in the final 600 to be beaten by 1.3L. The tempo of that race was pretty fair with the first part being run 4% slower than the final 600. Not really a slow tempo but getting towards the slow side. Hence its run wasnt that bad. These are the sort of things I look for. At the end of the day it really comes down to,."do I consider that run good enough to win win/again next start". If yes I b/b it, and back it next start if its within a 28 day period. (used to be 21 but missed out on a couple of good priced winners).

I've been doing this for some years now, had a break, went off on a different tangent, or maybe just spent to much time on the bowling green, whatever, but I got all keen and sectionalised again in February. Since then have had 151 bets all up for 49 wins for a s/r of 32.5 and POT of 36%. Some of those bets were in the same race/s, like yours yesterday, that figure then becomes 49 wins in 115 races, s/r of 42.6 for the same POT.

If this keeps up I am more than happy. It's the only way I could ever make a buck out of racing,

Paul

That's very good going Paul.
Just shows with a bit of independant work, one can beat the crowd and the bookies!

Thanks CP, for your kind comments,

Paul