Is POT better than POS?
 

Now much is made of POT (Profit on Turnover) as a measure of the success or otherwise of Ratings, Systems, Performance. For me, the MORE important consideration is POS (Profit on Stake)

We start each betting day with a stake. An amount we should feel slightly uneasy with if we lose it but more than happy with if we double it as profit!
In the attached sheet, based on actual bets placed yesterday, is a set of bets placed using a theoretical $500 initial stake.

As the day progresses we are doing quite well but take note of how the more you bet the more your POT decreases. If we set a target: that we want to double our stake, we should have stopped betting after bet 4. The punting Gods smiled on us and gave us another 6 opportunities to quit, but we ploughed on!

Then we started to hit the inevitable losing patch, had a choice to quit for the day or start implementing loss recovery by increasing stakes. NOT GOOD. We were given another opportunity to quit at bets 15 -17 but we ploughed on to be hit with another loss. We took a punt and increased our stake 10 fold, which paid off! At the end of the day we achieved our POS target for a measley 3.3% POT and had a free rollercoaster ride at Luna Park.

On another thread the question was asked, "When to Quit?". My answer is,"When you achieve your POS!".
Have a great day, RP

You sound like a pom, they think like that and use ROI

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WRONG on both counts
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No I'm not a POM, a 4th generation Australian and:

POT is another name for ROI (UK term)
ROI or POT - Short for 'Return On Investment'or'Profit on Turnover' in percentage (%). The formula: = total profit / total staked * 100.
Example: if a series of 55 bets (all at $1 stake each) returned a profit of $7.50, then ROI/POT% = $7.50 (total profit) divided by $55 (total staked) multiplied by 100 = 13.6% ROI/POT

POS - 'Profit on Stake' in percentage (%). The formula: = total profit / initial stake * 100.
Example: if a series of 55 bets(all at $1 stake each) return a profit of $7.50, then POS% = $7.50 (total profit) divided by $1 (initial stake) multiplied by 100 = 750% POS


POS, ROI & POT all have the same result after one event. POS differs from ROI & POT after more than one event because POS is always based on the initial stake as the divisor.
RP

ROC does me just fine, these days = return on capital(initial sum in bank + any further deposits?)

Helps me back to reality i.e. bank interest!

LG

The spin from the "R2W Axis at the SRA" boys must be affecting me....lol!!
RP

Just having a laugh with the pom joke, the way i understand they use ROI is if they started a series with $100 and finish with $110 that would be an ROI of 10%

But with POT if you started with $100 and had total bets of $500 and finished the series with $110 that would be a POT of 2%
Not sure why we use POT and they use ROI i prefer POT because i think it represents risk v reward in a better way.

ROI is actually an investing term so not sure why it is associated with betting.

ROI and POT are two completely different things.
Return on investment is the return on the capital invested. You allocate $1000 to your betting bank. This is your investment. After a year you end up with $2000 in the bank so you made 100% ROI. Some say they are going to put $1000 in but start with $100. In this case the ROI is 1000%.

POT is profit on turnover. You take the above $1000 and over the course of the year you have 1000 ten dollar bets and end up with $2000 in your bank. In this case you have outlaid $10000 in turnover and made $1000 profit, thus profit divided by turnover gives 10% POT.

You could argue that stake is your investment. Stake (the money at risk) is more an individual investment per venture. Hence while the bank is set up to pursue a specific betting angle, win or lose, only a portion is at risk at any time hence your stake is each individual bet.

To me you should Measure your betting success by focusing on betting bank growth.

The formula for calculating your betting bank growth ratio is:
Your Profit $ / Starting Bank $ = Betting Bank Growth Ratio

Understand that an effective betting strategy is one that delivers a balance between the volume of bets you have and your betting edge over the marketplace (your expected profit on each dollar wagered).

Ultimately your actual real dollars profit as a punter is the measure upon which you should judge yourself.

Not sure why you need to further complicate things here? You are merely re-labeling ROI or ROC.

Regards the relevance of using 'investment jargon' when it comes to the punt and regardless of our differing methods / approach, most of us are investing capital to generate positive returns and thereby increase the initial amount, surely??

LG

Hi Lord Greystroke

I have to disagree with your first point. I am not attempting to complicate things or am I relabeling ROI. ROI is invariably depicted as a percentage not as a ratio. I am simply offering a different view on how I believe one should address the issue of POT/POS/ ROI/ ROC etc.

In respect of your question, I agree completely.

OMG what have I started??
 

Listen, you're all missing the point. You've witnessed the birth of POS today, I don't care about any of that other stuff!

"POS will be looked upon by countless future generations as the best thing to happen to punting since the internet was invented!" ...lol (RINCONPAUL 2013)

POS is a fundamental indicator of when to STOP betting. Refer to my attachment, you're not looking at what it's signalling.
Goodbye! RP

RP, love your style mate and you may just have a valid point here regards knowing when to hit the STOP button with the aid of a simple indicator.

PaulD01, I take your point(s) and offer respect for your informative postings and additional insights - a breath of fresh air, I believe. Sadly however, you are now one of three posters on here who have referred to me directly as 'Lord Greystroke' - whether that be intentional or unintentional, I find it mildly amusing at best and a tad annoying in the worst case. Given exactly the same typo and that it has only happened thrice here over the period of 12-14 months and many exchanges with a shed load of different posters later, I am hoping that all 3 of you are not one and the same person?!

Cheers LG

I have NEVER cared about POT with my own betting. The P part is what provides the Bollinger.
The turnover is generally meaningless to me as it is the same money being used over and again. I am interested in the largest drawdown on my bank. That is important to me.
Congrats on your lateral thinking.

Strokes
 

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Way off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Way off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Way off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Way off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

You realise that POS is dependant on SR. Inversely proportional to the SR will be POS in negative territory.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.

A TOU has been received. Post moderated. Way off topic. Please stick to posting about the thread issue. Moderator.