Banned
 

OK so new thread, how many of you have had an e-mail from a certain mob banning you , who offer " lay of the day" selections, both on Saturdays and now Wednesdays"?

Like, at this moment there is only little ol' me and "Mark",....... unbelievable considering that we are both LOSING on their selections, like why would they even put their magnificent minds to such paltry individuals? betting to a max PROFIT of $100? something far more sinister,.... me thinks!

Party, it's the act of using a promotional product to it's maximum. They deem this as a professional approach. Their promotion is simply a marketing tool to attract new business. They don't want people using it as a strategy.
Their last condition sums it up...
For recreational punters only

May has been a shocker for them, just look at their results:

Date 	Track 	Race 	Start Time 	Selection 	Unibet Odds 	Result

Sat 17th 	Doomben 	6 	3.05pm 	Arabian Gold 	$2.10 	1st

Sat 17th 	Scone 	5 	2.40pm 	Atmospherical 	$3.50 	1st

Wed 14th 	Canterbury 	4 	2.53pm 	Bridge Of Sighs 	$9.00 	1st

Wed 14th 	Sandown 	4 	2.00pm 	Fantome Gris 	$4.40 	1st

Sat 10th 	Rosehill 	7 	3.50pm 	Forster 	$3.00 	1st

Sat 10th 	Morphettville 	6 	2.54pm 	Rhythm To Spare 	$3.70 	1st

Sat 10th 	Flemington 	4 	2.22pm 	Backstedt 	$4.00 	1st

Sat 10th 	Doomben 	3 	1.20pm 	Havana 	$2.15 	2nd

Wed 7th 	Sandown 	5 	2:35pm 	The Thief 	$3.50 	2nd

Wed 7th 	Warwick Farm 	3 	2:18pm 	Murphy’s Delight 	$6.50 	3rd

Sat 3rd 	Caulfield 	4 	2:27pm 	Pressing 	$2.80 	1st

Sat 3rd 	Hawkesbury 	2 	1:00pm 	Idyllic Scenery 	$7.50 	Unplaced

You'll find any bookie that offers promotional products that punters use to the maximum, will be locked out as soon as they have a win, if not before.

The bookie doesn't individually sit down and think "I've had enough of this joker" their sophisticated software flags winners, large bettors and people that utilise promotional products above a certain limit. You are marked and chances are that info is shared amongst affiliated bookies, so you might get shut down very quickly elsewhere as well. I have long been of the opinion that these offers are the exploding briefcase for punters. Grab it and they know....you are one of the savvy punters they don't want.

It really is grubby business, and they have no right to call themselves bookmakers. They do not make books. They engineer their client base to only be fluid with casual mug punters.

It is also morally wrong, the mug punter has no chance to win at all.
Chance is removed, because I have first hand knowledge of losing decent sums at certain bookies and then having a largeish win, (but still losing long term) and I am locked out from ever winning again.

My advice is to milk them as hard as you can and move on when the fat lady sings, but let everyone you know, to follow suit. Cause some damage to their pockets, it's the only way to protest.

I'm aware of the bookie in question. I have a bookie folder in my Outlook box which is full of restricted or banned emails.

Funny thing is Chrome, I wrote an email of protest to which they quickly replied that most of my bets were using the promotion. My reply was I had had 26 bets since opening my account of which 5 were on the promotion....hardly most. No response. Racing Commission here we come again.

Unfortunatly its a toothless tiger and backs up the bookies 100% of the time.

It's interesting if you read overseas based posts and articles, they've matured a little quicker than us, in that being banned by a soft bookmaker (encompasses all bookmakers except Pinnacle) is a NO BRAINER. Just part of life now, everyone accepts it. They're now down to ways to prolong your membership of a bookie and extend your life there from a day to a few weeks while you scalp them.

Some of the methods involve:
1/ Disguising your IP address
2/ Creating a very common browser fingerprint on a virgin computer to avoid detection
3/ Creating virtual machines
4/ Using other people and their computers to act as a team

It really is quite sophisticated, and when I became aware of it, it leaves you no choice but to use Pinnacle and Betfair for longevity, that's it! No point grumbling anymore, it's over. Either encompass all the latest techniques to avoid detection, which will only give you a limited breathing space, or find other niches.

Seeing as this is becoming more of a problem,
Has anybody tried this link below as it is on our forum???.

http://www.propun.com.au/racing_for...ead.php?t=28353.

Cheers.

rinconpaul, lack of Computer skills is my main problem, I wonder if you would consider explaining those disguises in more detail? if so my e-mail is lumbasakabayo att hott male dott kom

Email sent Party

Chrome, point taken though the Irony is that I was away in NZ for two weeks and missed all the winners, so the only winners I backed were the two last Saturday, that's why I'm flabbergasted.

Yes it has a very limited lifespan because they pick up on the betting patterns. What's worse is, if you make a boo boo and accidentally forget the protocol they are under no obligation to pay you. If it's large sums involved, it could even go further.

Yes have spoken to them and they can't help with what I do.

I could do all of that easily, but in the end you want your money out. How do you go about that?
Your winnings have to go to your account, or do you mean to set up new accounts? Hardly possible under Australian regulations with identity proof required.

Not quite clear to me.

Why does the Government allow this, but then say "if you have a problem gambling call this number"? If you have no chance from the beginning, what's the point?

Legislation needs to be put in place whereby a Bookmaker must take on every customer to a certain liability each race/sporting event, regardless of whether they're positive or negative overall. The TAB used to take customers on but have recently decided they want even more profit so they ban/limit anyone that wins. Corporate greed at it's finest. There are an extremely small number left that still do this (and are probably getting increasing business as a result).

If their business model can't incorporate this then they have no place in the business of bookmaking.

Most do give you a liability. Its about $5 that you can win which can mean bets of about 30c or less.

Interesting I have been to a lot of trade shows on data science and prediction and every single one of the bookies is there and are eager to find better techniques for identifying betting patterns.

Not in my case for fixed odds. All the big bookmakers including the TAB will take me on to win $0.00 lol.

I'm confused if I walk into the TAB and place a bet I'm an anonymous punter arn't I? there's plenty of TAB outlets to make a spread, or can't you have a fixed odds bet in the TAB? wouldn't know, many years since I've used em'

As far as betting patterns are concerned, I've always used many different accounts, never placing many consecutive bets using the same account, but it appears that they are still a few steps ahead!

You're anonymous until you have been in there a few times - then if you fall under their "not commercially viable" title, you'll be limited in a physical TAB center. They manage customers in there now too, it's crazy - it mainly started around Feb this year (there was a leaked TAB fixed odds document that explains it all).

I went to my local footy club on sunday for what they call Ton Club, not sure if any of you are aware of what that is but basically you pay $100, drink free alcohol for 4 hours and have a chance at winning prizes. Anyhow while were standing there having a drink with 200 other people we start having a few fun bets. My mate sneaks over to put $50 fixed on Bossy Lad, Port Macquarie Race 5. Funnily enough i've put $10 on the same horse on the tote and neither of us knew, it runs second and i share my bet with everyone. My mate says to me oh really you were on that too, I tried to get on but this ticket came out and I missed it, never seen this before.

On the ticket it reads something like "Bet cannot be accepted, over betting limit" or something of the sorts, essentially because he's placed a $50 fixed bet on.

Now how on earth can Tatts not handle a $50 fixed price bet on a $7 horse from a random punter among 200 blokes at a footy club? They likely would've made a killing from the machine in our club that day anyhow with a bunch of drunks betting on just about anything.

Pretty sad state of affairs when you can't get a $50 fixed bet on something paying $7's when they can't even identify who you are just that your betting at that footy club. I don't think the machine operator even know what was going on with the ticket and what's even more funny is that the horse lost anyway.

UB, I agree with PAT123, I've said before they should have to accept bets up to say $1000 liability on any single event from ANY individual, I mean if they don't like it they can lay it off can't they?

When you think about it that's what being a bookmaker is all about isn't it; i.e. balancing a book, there's a winner in every race, if they have the numbers right they make (approx) 20% regardless, so there should be legislation in place definitely.

Party guess what??...due to popular demand that L of the Day promotion includes Wednesday's now!

Rinconpaul, I got the same e-mail from them promoting the bluuu dee thing today! hard to fathom!

I got the email yesterday. It was a good run for 1.5 years!

Correct as predicted.
The response came back in record time, (overnight !!!, first one took around 3 months !!!!!) which suggests they are receiving a multitude of complaints and opting for the cut & paste reply.

Can you copy the reply please Mark?

Rinconpaul, guess what now? they've shelved the Lay of The Day altogether,

looks like you were right Chrome; about em taking a caning! Never mind as one door closes another opens.

Party, might only appear for those that haven't been banned yet?

Nope....

"Lay of the Day will be going on a break. Thanks to all the punters who took up the challenge! Keep an eye out for more promotions and competitions from xxxxxx in the coming months."

Got taken to the cleaners :p

Suck eggs. I probably made 2k from their lay of the days and 2nd and 3rd money back offers risk free. Was a good run while it lasted!

PAT123, I had a good result today BR8 2, (exploiting money back 2nd , 3rd) but I have to tell you it was by default really, I dropped a clanger, i.e. I was exposed if it had run 2nd or 3rd........ as it happened, I had enough time to get out of the situation and all was well when it won.

But, I wonder if you can give me a pointer as to how to exploit this one , I just can't get my head around it? lumbasakabayo att hott male dott kom

All I used to do with unibet 2nd/3rd was back the fav and lay it off on betfair at the closest lay price i could get. It worked a good number of times. At worst i'd lose a couple of dollars due to the price diff on betfair but it was well worth it. I remember Melb Cup last year when Tom W was offering money back to 5th place. I did this along with unibet and another bookmaker and ended up making $400 risk free - it was a fluke though as mu horse came 4th - this was the best possible outcome.

If it runs unplaced?

Then I end up even +/- a few dollars, depending on the back/lay prices I took. Am I right in assuming everyone here doesn't do this? It's free money lol.

Yeah I can't get past: OK if it wins, OK unplaced (as layed to win & place) but end up with a liabilty if it runs 2nd or 3rd) could be just my brain not working properly?

It's not hard to work out.

I backed the fav on unibet or the 2nd fav then laid the horse off on betfair for the closest price i could get, then just sit back and wait. It comes 1st - you end up about even, same for 4th or worse. 2nd or 3rd and you're in the money (as you get a refund through unibet, but still win the lay on betfair). It's as simple as that.

sweet

working example,

last night Spirit of boom $4.60 with a certain mob who were offering the 2nd 3rd deal. BF lay price was $5.90 (at that stage)

So $100 win on SOB
now lay it (what amount?) but if we lay it $100 @$5.90

This is how we stand:

If it wins = lose $490-$360 = $130 loss
If it runs 2nd or 3rd yes we win $100 less commission say $94 Profit
If it loses altogether , we lose $100 but win $94 so $6 loss

So doing it this way you're risking a loss of $130 for a possible gain of $94, which equates to having a $130 bet on a $1.40c favourite.

Having said all that I still feel there is a way to cover all and still make a small profit no matter what , but at a loss as to how to do maths. ?.... anyone?

Why would you even be considering that? The back and lay prices are too far apart and it's too far out from the race.

PAT123, we're on the same side, I would not consider doing that , and that's what I find when they are offering money back 2nd & 3rd, their price for the fav. is ridiculously low. IF you can get close yes a different proposition, but so far I haven't been able to make it work, apart from today when as I said I dropped a clanger but scrambled out of it reducing my liability, I was left in a position almost break even but a profit if it won; and it did I re-backed it @ $5.50 so saved the bacon!

PS. I like to get set Friday night if I can, sure I could do better (usually) if I really concentrated but if I'm locked in for a profit, I prefer that, then not sat in front of the comp like a stunned Mullet!

[QUOTE=partypooper]

last night Spirit of boom $4.60 with a certain mob who were offering the 2nd 3rd deal. BF lay price was $5.90

Hi P.P.

Was that certain mob the first one top left in green,
Where the analyst picked the winner?
I may be wrong.

http://www.racenet.com.au/breeding/...kies_240514.pdf

Cheers.
Garyf.