NSW Minimum Bet Limits - Start September 1st, 2014
 

It's a start....


Tuesday, 22 July 2014

Minimum Bet Limits

Following extensive consultation with wagering operators and punters, Racing NSW has announced the terms of minimum bet limits that Australian wagering operators will be required to comply with when betting on NSW Thoroughbred races.
Racing NSW Chief Executive, Mr Peter V’landys, said:
“The consultation process with wagering operators and punters was very constructive and informative. Racing NSW carefully assessed the submissions from all parties and has amended its previous proposal in light of those submissions.
“Racing NSW is confident that the conditions announced today are fair and practical for all parties, whether they are wagering operators, professional punters or recreational punters. All punters should be able to place a legitimate bet on NSW Thoroughbred races and should not be discriminated against by having their accounts closed or bets refused simply because they are successful.
“Racing NSW will monitor the conditions to ensure that they are fair and practical for all parties. If warranted, changes may be made periodically to achieve the right balance.”
The key points of the minimum bet limit conditions are as follows:
• Wagering operators are not to take actions such as closing a punter’s accounts, refusing to open a punter’s account or placing restrictions on a punter’s account solely to avoid complying with the minimum bet limit conditions. However, wagering operators are still able to take such actions for legitimate reasons including undisclosed bowlers (persons betting on behalf of other persons), responsible gambling, fraudulent activity, money-laundering and other integrity related reasons such as the punter being warned off or disqualified.
• Wagering operators are required to lay the odds displayed for fixed odds bets to the limits below. The minimum bet limit has been set at levels which are considered to be fair and balanced. Those levels were requested by most punters (although some professional punters requested higher levels) yet are still higher than what was requested by most wagering operators.
For Australian Wagering Operators with Net Assessable Turnover on NSW Thoroughbred races greater than or equal to $5 million
Race type Bet (Win and/or Each Way/*Win & Place)
Metropolitan NSW Thoroughbred races Wagering operator to lose a minimum $2,000 (*place component $800)
Non-Metropolitan NSW Thoroughbred races Wagering operator to lose a minimum $1,000 (*place component $400)

For Australian Wagering Operators with Net Assessable Turnover on NSW Thoroughbred Races less than $5 million
Race type Bet (Win and/or Each Way/*Win & Place)
All NSW Thoroughbred races Wagering operator to lose a minimum $1,000 (*place component $400)
• Recognising differences in the off-course environment where punting can be rapid fire to the point of automation, wagering operators are only required to bet to the limit once per horse for each customer or related customers (where there are bowlers betting on behalf of other persons).
• The minimum bet limit conditions apply to fixed odds bets placed after 9am on the day of the race (2pm for night race meetings) and do not apply in respect of bets placed as part of a betting exchange. They also do not apply to derivative bets such as best tote or exotic bets such as quinellas and trifectas.
• At this stage, the minimum bet limits will not apply to cash (non-account) bets placed in retail outlets, including interstate and NSW TAB agencies, hotels, clubs and pubs, primarily due to the difficulties associated with determining whether a cash bet in a retail outlet is a bowler bet placed on behalf of another person. It is important to note that retail wagering operators will still be required to comply with the minimum bet limits for bets placed by account holders, whether by internet, phone or in the retail outlets.
• Australian wagering operators will be required to comply with the minimum bet limit condition from 1 September 2014.
• Punters who believe that a wagering operator has refused their bet or excluded them in contravention of the minimum bet limit condition should initially raise the matter with the wagering operator to ascertain the reason for the refusal or exclusion. If they remain unsatisfied with the reason provided by the wagering operator, then they should lodge a formal complaint in writing with Racing NSW (minimumbet@racingnsw.com.au). Racing NSW will then investigate the complaint to assess, on the evidence available, whether the wagering operator appears to have breached the minimum bet limit condition and whether the wagering operator should be referred for prosecution.

Source: http://www.racingnsw.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=16086

Does this apply to best tote, etc ? Im guessing no, only fixed odds.

Does it apply to people who have previously been restricted?
For example can I now re-fund those accounts and from 1/9 bet on NSW fixed odds again?

Not too sure UB.

For reference purposes, here's the email for complaints: minimumbet@racingnsw.com.au


Can't wait to see if they comply on September 1st. I'm gonna be giving Sportsbet and TAB a go and rip them when they don't let me on for a $5 bet at 1.01

Yes I believe so. Ladbrokes closed my account for commercial reasons so I am assuming they will legally have to re-open it?

Love this tweet:


Josh Nelms ‏@joshblackmarket Jul 21
September 1st, Inbox full: minimumbet@racingnsw.com.au
#minimumbetlimits

as pointed out in the other thread, it looks like the corps have an out -

• Wagering operators are not to take actions such as closing a punter’s accounts, refusing to open a punter’s account or placing restrictions on a punter’s account solely to avoid complying with the minimum bet limit conditions. However, wagering operators are still able to take such actions for legitimate reasons including undisclosed bowlers (persons betting on behalf of other persons), responsible gambling, fraudulent activity, money-laundering and other integrity related reasons such as the punter being warned off or disqualified.



What's to stop them declaring any accounts they do not want active as 'undisclosed bowlers' etc, which then forces the punter to complain to racing nsw & somehow prove they are legit?

It's a start but needs to be implemented & enforced consistently across all racing jurisdictions, & I wonder how much time & resources Racing NSW will commit to enforcement.

Love to be glass half full on this, but suspect these weasel corps will do whatever they can to avoid fully complying.

Just tried putting on a $5 bet for interest sake through the TAB, fixed odds of 2.00. Warning message: "Over limit". What limit is that? $0.00? This was my first bet in 3 months.

Called them up and asked if they were aware of what's happening on September 1st and they were none the wiser. That minimum bet email address is gonna get bombarded in a little over a month! It's time for a change.

Holy hell! I just had a talk with one of the higher-ups at the TAB regarding the new legislation and he said honestly the TAB bookmakers will find their way around not accepting bets from all customers when a bet is submitted by a non-commercially viable customer... This coming from a guy working at the TAB (William) whom which was reached at 131802.

He also told me to go elsewhere if I want fixed odds and that these new practices of not accepting winning customers bets came into place in February this year. The level of honesty from him was scary.

Well at least they dont insult by pretending they dont ban etc.

It's going to take alot of work to get these limits enforced & until it is a nation wide approach I suspect it just wont work as there are too many loopholes from what I see.

I'm gonna video tape my bet attempts Sept 1st and send them through to the relevant departments.

Good idea, I would also be recording any conversations you have with them queering why you cannot get on.

Wish I had have recorded the phone call today (although maybe they did on their end?). He basically admitted they weren't to take on winners from Feb this year.

NSW Minimum Bet - Rules

PDF: http://www.racingnsw.com.au/site/_c...1213-source.pdf

Does anyone know whether the min bet rule applies only to over-the-phone fixed odds bets, or is it internet betting (if currently offered by the bookmaker) too?

Thanks.

Hi Pat123

Not sure on that one. One concern that I do have, that I have been advised of by senior management of a leading corporate is that the accounts are likely to be reopened but that they (this particular group) do not intend to comply with the new Racing NSW mandate. They are of the opinion that:

1. There are no legislative requirements for them to do so given that they are not licensed by Racing NSW; and
2. There are no clear penalties in place for any breach.

So in essence whilst it may be Racing NSW objective to force corporate bookmakers to comply in respect of NSW racing from September 1, there is simply no effective means to compel them to do so. I hope that I am proven wrong.

Fortunately every bookmaker regardless of where they are licensed have to comply with the min bet rules - this according to Richard Irvine who was involved with the consultation process.

Hi Pat123

Yes I am aware of Richards involvement and views as we have provided some assistance to him in his campaign. The issue is that whilst Racing NSW might say that all bookmakers are compelled to comply with the new rules there is to my understanding currently no legal way of ensuring that they do. That is the problem.

Well assuming that a bookmaker must be licensed by RNSW to operate on NSW races, then surely RNSW will be within their rights to suspend said licence until a bookmaker complies with the new regs.

Bookmaker licensing in New South Wales is the responsibility of the relevant controlling bodies of racing. However, bookmakers may obtain authorities for approved events betting, telephone and electronic betting from the Minister for Gaming and Racing under the Racing Administration Act 1998.


Bookmaker Electronic (Internet) Betting and Approved Premises Betting - Racing NSW policy information

Updated March 2011
Electronic Betting

Bookmakers wishing to conduct electronic betting and obtain Internet access to view prices, transact bets or make bet backs on thoroughbred, harness, greyhound races or approved betting events with licensed wagering operators while fielding at a racecourse or approved betting premise must make application to Racing NSW.

A bookmaker must also apply to the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing (OLGR) for an Electronic Betting Authority and/or Betting Back Approval.
If an Electronic Betting Authority is approved by the Minister and an Authorisation is permitted by Racing NSW, bookmakers may view prices, transact bets or bet backs with licensed wagering operators via the Internet utilising an OLGR approved betting system when it is lawful to operate as a bookmaker.

Such approvals are restricted to Bookmakers use on a racecourse, an authorized betting office, betting auditorium or an approved betting premise and are subject to the Rules of Racing (including LR 97A), the Racing NSW Bookmaker Telephone, Electronic Betting and Approved Premises or Authorised Betting Office Standard Conditions and any policies or directions of Racing NSW or conditions of approval of OLGR.
To view Bookmakers Betting Limits please click here

The NSW Bookmaker Electronic Betting Conditions, as approved by the Minister for Gaming and Racing, are issued by OLGR to those bookmakers who have been issued with the relevant Internet Betting Authority. See also section 16 of the Racing Administration Act 1998.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/default...kmakers-betting

Hi Stugots

Yes if they are LICENSED by Racing NSW in terms of their bookmakers licence then yes they are required to comply and are governed by the regulatory framework of that states licencing authority. What I'm referring to though is that most of the corporate bookmakers whilst they OPERATE on NSW racing aren't licensed by Racing NSW (most being licensed in the NT). Operating on NSW racing in these situations comes under the Race Fields Legislation that deals with the financial contributions made by those corporate bookmakers as a result of publishing race fields or NSW racing.

And that is one of the main problems, however, the bigger issues are the loopholes.
Bowlers etc.
If there's a loophole, they'll find it.
There's no way they will allow large winners to continue.

Suspected that was the case Paul, so what is required is for RNSW to push for changes to the Race Fields Legislation (or whatever else is required) so that all bookmakers located within Australia wishing to bet on NSW racing must be licensed by RNSW.

& if that forces them offshore to keep betting on NSW races, so be it. Got to take the fight up to them, or else what was the point to begin with.

Hi Stugots
Not a lawyer so can't answer your question as I simply don't know the answer. I do believe though that whilst it may initially prove difficult to get on eventually I'm hoping that through the inevitable consultation process that a compromise is reached. One solution might be to offer the corporate bookmakers some incentives to comply by reducing the Race Fields fees if the have an on course presence, similar to Tabcorp over the VIC carnivals.

So what compels a bookie to pay the race field fees?

According to the Racing Administration Act 1998, Racing NSW has the right to cancel approval to use the race field data, so while they might not be able to prosecute they could shut them down on those races.

Nice one Fred.

Will be lawyers at 20 paces sooner rather than later methinks;)

Actually after thinking about it I can see PaulD's point in that they can sue for fees owed, but much harder for RNSW to establish a loss for rejected bets.

We should all keep a log of rejected bets in preparation for our own class action. :)

They will have to prove beyond doubt you are a bowler to racing nsw. For legitimate bettors this shouldn't be an issue apart from the initial inconvenience?

Other way around I think, punter has to prove he is not a bowler, & as I posted before, I would be most interested to know how one goes about proving that.

I'd think innocent until proven guilty. Richard Irvine says the onus to prove bowler status is on the bookie. What a sad state of affairs we're even talking about this.

UK bookmakers are sickening.

I remember Betdaq (the opposition to Betfair) was listing Oz racing without paying any fees. They were soon stopped.

Lol! Why can't we use Betdaq?

For UK races you can but not for the Aussie racing as they were barred from listing the race fields I think. Maybe a company can only include Aussie racing if they have an office here? I don't know.

both them & the greedy shortsighted NT Govt that has allowed all this to happen, & whos mess it is now leaving up to others to sort out

So Australians can now use Betdaq? I remember trying to sign up a year ago and it said sorry your country is not permitted etc.

Yes Pat our country is banned by Betdaq even for overseas horseracing following the trouble they got into for putting up Australian race fields.
They have banned the country now.

So apparently Sportsbet have already started betting to the new 2k limits etc. Can anyone confirm this from NSW races today? I read this on twitter from a punter.

Not for this little black duck.

Ah .Your always good for a giggle Mark.
Made my day.
Thanks.

Not for me either! Maybe this guy doesn't have any limits to begin with. lol.

Went on sportsbet chat and they said 9am monday