If any BIG BOOKIES read this could you please reply.

Why are winning punters accounts terminated???

Seems to happen with every betting shop not just an odd one.

From my American viewpoint, they must be just like the insurance conpanies; all is well as long as you're paying your monthly premiums. File a claim and they are ready to give you the boot. They like the deck stacked much in their favor, as if it's not already, what with all the things that can go wrong in a horserace.I would love to collect money daily with an almost assured profit. What a deal.

Glenn

[ This Message was edited by: TheAvenger on 2004-06-15 09:31 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TheAvenger on 2004-06-15 09:32 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TheAvenger on 2004-06-15 09:32 ]

Another reason to attend the track.
The old time bookie would roll over in their graves at the gutless wonders around today .
Cheers.
darky.

Darkydog. I definately agree with you about the old time bookies turning in their graves if they could see what has happened now.

Do you think the track bookies are any better than the million dollar betting shops who continually brag about the gigantic bets they take, and on the other hand only want losers betting with them.

An Adelaide bookie is regularly on the radio saying he bet to lose $40,000 on numerous occasions but a punter I know said it's near impossible to get $5000 on in the Adelaide ring.I went to the track for 40 years but would sooner bet in Vanuatu and get the best of the 3 totes.

No replies yet from the fearless bookies.

The Late Mail.
The adelaide ring has been pathetic for many years and the main reason I dont bet Adelaide.
I am not surprised the bookies have not responded .After all it would take a bit of dash ,guts and daring to respond wouldn,t it.
And thats in very short supply with this mob.
Cheers.
Darky.

Not sticking up for the bookies, but has anybody here actually had a licence & stood up.

It's not as easy as you would think.

Does Ron Foster still have a stand n Adelaide?, in the late 70's he was one of the biggest, even though he was out in the flats and I never knew him to cut a bet.
on the flip side is Bob Robertson still punting there, he was a pretty big punter back then.

Mark, I had a bookmaking licence for over 15 years.Nobody is saying it's all beer and skittles but I can't see why these big betting shops are never ending spruking about taking gigantic bets and terminate anyone's account when they are consistent winners. Another mate of mine had his account closed this week, which is about the sixth one I know of in the last 6 months.

Most bookies are complaining about reduced turnover and when the get a decent bet can't wait to lay the lot of with someone else.The same $3000 bet is doing the rounds between about 6 bookies.

Anyone attending the races these days can see what a pathetic example these bookies set.I never thought I would ever say that bookies are of no value to racing but it is a fact.The prices go up 5 minutes after they see what the TAB is paying and they may as well have mirrored boards as the prices are the same from one end of the ring to the other. Just a joke.

I totally agree Late Mail. With the godsend of Betfair, I believe that a lot of the current "bookies" days are numbered.

There has been a complete turnaround in the UK. The bookies have their own computers open to Betfair, and when the exchanges first came to be, the bookies would set the markets & the "machines" (as they call them) would follow. Now, only a few years on, the machines set the market & the bookies follow. The on-course value is dwindling as a lot of the bets laid are bet back on the machines at higher prices. It's getting to the point where any serious punters will not be going to the track.

Anybody wish to speculate on where the TAB's will be, in say 5 years?. My belief is that they will bear no resemblance to the TAB of today.

There are at least two areas (understatement) that the TABs are in need of immediate and urgent reform:

1. Bet and account transparency

2. The cost to bet

With respect to the former I (and other Forumites) have offerred living examples of, lets say, peculiar TAB investment patterns. These patterns have an undoubted corollary with race results. "Prescribed Persons" (Trainers, jockeys, stewards etc etc) are prohibited from placing wagers on the outcome of races for many a good reason that needs no re-statement here.

For as long it is permissable for an adult person to anonymously place cash wagers with the TABs it will remain impossible for Racing Authorities (stewards) to effectively police and prevent "Prescribed Persons" making illicit TAB investments. It remains an imperative for the TABs (and on-course bookies) to adopt highly transparent audit trails so as to maintain (restore) integrity in day-to-day Racing that will bear Public scrutiny.

As a first step the TABs could do far worse than look to the Betfair audit trail model. A number of highly visible advertisements (propaganda) are currently airing within the media imputing that the integrity of Racing is threatened by Betting Exchanges. That some of these commercials feature a parade of "Prescribed Persons" leaves me in head shaking disbelief.

........to be continued

.....continued

In the near future (within 5 years) the overwhelming majority of TAB investment (and on-course Tote and bookies) will be facilitated through an established and fully bonafide account. The rank and file punter will still be accomodated on a petty cash basis under a prescribed threshold (say $50) otherwise the punter will be obliged to produce a plastic swipe card (plus PIN) to complete a wager.

Once in place the new face of a single National TAB will emerge. All Win/Place betting will be facilitated via the TABs very own Betting Exchange competing with at least one fully licensed and established exchange alternative (BetFair).

Commissions will be levied in a competitive enviroment as follows. For the stay at home internet/phone punter a standard 5% will be borne subject to a volume bonus.

TAB outlets will franchised. The franchisee will operate on a commission margin above a standard 2% (leaving 3% gross profit). To attract and compete for the punters business franchisees will offer reduced commission rates (say 4%) on exchange wagers (that the rank and files' volume would not normally qualify) in addition to comfortable and licensed premises.

......to be continued

Agree with the Dr.

There will be 1 TAB,& for win/place betting it will have to operate as an exchange or lose out completely.

The exotics (quinella's, trifecta's etc) will remain the same, but they will also offer more, larger dividend incentives, such as pick 6 or 8 winners. TAB's will have less people attending, as more & more go online to bet.

Big changes are ahead & at last it's the punter who will benefit as the TAB's will need to push for smaller margins on higher turnover.

.....continued


Unmanned dedicated betting terminals/portals/phones will be provided in number throughout TAB outlets and on-course. Using the swipe card (voice, iris and thumb print technology will soon render plactic redundant) the placement of wagers (bid + offer) on the exchanges will be as simple as using the internet. The punter will be able to check on the status of his wager at will.

Commissions levied on the on-course punter will be say a flat 2% (the lowest level). All of a sudden punters will be incentivised to return to the race course via their wallet. Instead of Race Clubs putting on Rock concerts after the last to get punters to attend the races a new concept will dawn - give punters what they want!!

I see the transformation of the current TAB pari-mutuel model (Win+Place) as a vitally urgent priority. Blind Freddy knows the pari-mutuel can not compete with a Betting Exchange. In order to prosper and grow the National TAB must offer a competitive and marketable product GLOBALLY - a heavily taxed and valueless pari-mutuel is not such a product.

Racing in Australia needs a vision and eye for the emerging technologically dominated future. Seeking to eliminate competition (Betting Exchanges) by prohibition tells me the present TAB/Racing Clubs do not possess such a vision.

My rant is over. My map for the betting future is short on finer details which I'm happy to discuss further.

mr ed - you maybe right, everything I've said could be ****. So why don't you offer me (and others) the courtesy of articulating the reasons why you hold such a view? It will cost you nothing but time.

Gee I don't know what's going on, I agree with the Dr's rant!

Exchanges will only ever appeal to a small sector of the market... that might grow, but the added exposure will bring more smaller punters into the TABs anyway.

TABs, bookies and exchanges all have their place in the modern race wagering environment - it's up to each type to establish their niche.

TABs have the casual punter, the offcourse market, cash convenience, exotics etc

Bookies offer credit, features like top fluc, you know you are set at the time, etc.

Exchanges will cater for the value-seeking punter, and the guy looking for other options - being able to oppose a horse out of its depth etc.

Reported in this mornings THE AUSTRALIAN newspaper by Daniel Hoare.

"The nation's gaming giants are expected to lose their fight to prevent off-shore internet gambling, with the Howard Government tipped to allow international competitors.

The decision could revolutionise the industry by allowing offshore betting exchanges to become licensed in Australia."

"In a clear demonstration it is preparing for increased competition, the NSW TAB has registered its own betting exchange trademarks."

"Graham Cassidy, a spokesman for the TAB, conceded that the company would introduce its own betting exchange."

""........if it becomes an issue of the federal Government not banning them and they become part of the infrastructure of wagering in this country, then we'll be reluctantly joining the queue.""(Cassidy - TAB)

"The British company (BetFair) said it would pay the same percentage of revenues as the TABs which is believed to be between 20 and 40 per cent."

Is bookmaking a good profession?

If so, why? If no, why not?

It looks good to me, more people lose money on races than win. How could there be no profit in bookmaking?

Would any of

Because it is very hard to balance a book. Most bookies win by 'betting ' these days. either by taking on a favourite or literally backing one themselves. Punters also have more info and there are more ways to bet e.g corporate bookies, off shore agencies, tabs, betfair etc.

So what you're saying is the punters win more than bookies these days?

I don't find that too hard to believe, considering some punters only bet on "sure things" and bet big (like $20,000) which leaves the bookies no chance. But in horses I'm sure the bookies win more.

Bookies still have advantage if they do form study.

I have worked for bookies for 20 years and the ones still going are the ones prepared to actually be a bookie not a tote bet backer and let people on.

If they do their own form then it is still one of lifes best jobs cause most punters are honesty just hoping.

jaffa I am quite unknowledgable on this subject, and you sound like somebody who does have a fair amount of knowledge.

Will you explain to me the fundamentals and basics of bookmaking? Tell me about how to go about making and taking bets. Thanks.

Primo.

Bookies are there to set prices at what chance they think a horse is to win the race. The trouble with some bookies is that they keep horses under there real price as they are afraid to hold a decent bet these days.

But believe me there are still more mug punters who do their money then mug bookies.

Some bookies will like a certain jockey and so keep his horses price at very short odds. it is all up to the individual bookie.

Cheers mate.