In our opinion betting with bookmakers at least on Melbourne and Sydney racing will consistently give better returns on horses well in the market, even if top fluctuation is not necessarily obtained, compared to tote betting.

Here is a letter we received and replied to. We are also interested in your views and experiences about tote betting compared to betting with the bookies.

"Dear Sir,
I was somewhat surprised to read your "proof" that betting with bookies is better than betting with the tote.

The whole "proof" relied upon the punter getting "top fluctuation"

Could you please advise how this is done or even better put me in touch with a bookie who will give same.

I am already planning how I will spend my new found wealth

Tote returns have consistently exceeded SP for as long as I can remember."

I have read and heard that Bookies give better returns than the tote. In my experience which is limited to the tote only so long as you look for value when you bet it should put you ahead of the rest who are betting on the tote. Last saturday
Rosehill Race 3
My top selection SIZE HER UP i wanted $7.00 on the WA TAB could only get $3.80 so no bet.
RACE 4
Top selection TALISTA BELLE wanted $6.00 i got $12.40 a Nice Bet
RACE 6
Top selection LONHRO wanted $2.50 only got $1.60 so no bet
CAULFIELD Race 7
Top selection CRIMSOM GEM wanted $6.50 I got $6.50 I actually didn"t bet on this one as I prefer to well overs.

Crimson Gem started at $7.00 with the bookies, firming a touch from $7.50.

Does size of the field make a difference, I have read that the tote can pay better in races with large fields.

For MY betting (weekday races, generally selections paying from $8 to $20) I have found that the TAB almost always pays higher than bookies. For example my two winners today were:

BR5 - 10 Singin N Dancin - paid $13.30 on Tabcorp, SP was $7.00
SR7 - 11 Padlock - $17.50 on NSWTAB, SP was $13.00

I don't have TF prices for these (is there a website that has this info???) but I doubt they were much higher than the SP so in both cases I was MUCH better off with the TAB (with the SP prices I would not have been betting).

It seems to me that bookies are generally better for short priced horses (say $5 and under), tote is generally better for longer priced horses ($8 and up) and about equal between these prices. Also bookies are probably more competitive for the Saturday metro meetings whilst for midweek racing they seem to bet a higher percentage so that moves the balance towards the tote on those races.

Other advantage of the TAB is that I can see the prices on-line and place bets without having to make telephone calls - it will be good if the bookies website gets going so that you can compare bookies to TAB and then place the bet with the one offering best price. (Of course you can do that at the moment with IAS but they dont offer each-way and their prices are not always competitive with what other bookies are offering).

It often can, but not necessarily with the most favoured tote horses.
You can see how SuperTab compares with top fluctuation and starting price betting on horses starting at $5.50 or shorter in the bookies ring by clicking Bookmakers are best link in menu.
There are many tables of results.

So i would have got 50c more going with the bookies, not much difference

Top fluctuation means the price was commonly available in the betting ring. In this case it could have been a dollar more, not really that much for a small bet but it adds up.
On a $100 bet it is an extra $100.
It's best to check the tables on the site
at http://www.propun.com.au/bookmakers...ling_index.html
to see some of the really big differences that can occur.

[ This Message was edited by: Neil on 2002-08-07 21:58 ]

Lescoach,

The difference between $5 and $5.50 is huge when the aim of the game is to gain a long term advantage over a) bookmakers or b) the TAB. Any advantage is going to be marginal so an extra 10% makes a big difference long term.

Fact 1: No matter which way you look at it, the TAB cannot and will not lose on any race, EVER. Bookies on the other hand, can and do lose on individual races. You can therefore gain an edge over bookmakers.

Fact 2: There is no such thing as overs or unders on the TAB because you're never guaranteed the price you see at the time you place your bet. If you see $6 about a horse in the betting ring and you rate that a fair price you can lock it in with a bookmaker. Thousands of tote punters see the same horse at $6.60 and rush to get on the "overs". The horse starts at $5.60 on the TAB because the money has to be shared equally among punters but only after the TAB has taken it's unequal share.

Contrarian punters like Becareful are the only ones who have a realistic chance of winning long term on the TAB because they don't follow the crowd and are trying to cash in on the value created by herd mentality.

becareful,
International AllSports website now has the top flucs for winners a few minutes after correct weight. The address is http://www.betthe.net then go to racing and pick the race you are interested in.

[ This Message was edited by: Hammers on 2002-08-08 09:08 ]