Well, it's obvious at least that I am not alone being slightly perlexed with the value thing, "angry" says if you can't get the price you want then lay it, mmmmm yeeaaahh, mmmmm , but the grey area is "the price you want" isn't it, I mean I still think it will win but I can't get 3-1, .....so I lay it??? nah, doesn't sit right with me. Maybe that's why I'm still an "aspiring" pro! and not already living on the Gold Coast selling tips (or ratings)