and another nice little place system i had success with today..i use colin tidys betchoice if in case that gets edited out tolin cidys chetboice as the old spooner would say.....anyway wait til the race time ticks down to zero look at any runner that is showing less than 1.90 for the place ..but more than 5s for the win and its up to you what you do after that .. i prefer the place but tonite for example mg 4 no 8 ended up winning at 9.30 2.60 still i was happy with the 2.60..