Beton, mate, I give up, truly I do. It's not too often I back away from a spirited conversation but you've done me in. I will say that you do have a point because when I was going to reply to Vortech I got stuck at his suggestion of "track winner" which I would not include, so your comment about handicapping has some merit ..... BUT your winning this argument on a technicality and a couple of my systems that have shown the best results in terms of consistency across the board, both in time frames and various venues, will not be able to be properly categorised as you would like. Probs time I wasn't here permanently .....