Thanks for the welcome, ED. THe runner can finish anywhere above what you place it and still get paid. If it wins and you bet show (Or place for that matter) you still do get paid, but show bets are notoriously small here(remember our fields are not as large as yours. I almost always bet my horse Win and Place, besides gimmicks. If your horse runs second, you might break even or even come out ahead a little rather than being mad about how close you came(while losing your proposition all together. In Aus, (as in Ireland) is place = 2,3,4th in most fields? And do you get paid for all three positions if your horse comes in 2nd? I can't remember how it works. I do know each way is Win and Place right?What does Avenger think of the idea of having a major advantage if you do your homework compared to the average player here in the US?