Hey Tarbs, Don't worry about me lying about winners. i know how to pick em. i just somehow don't get to the track and that is the same as losing (or breaking even). My favorite slogan is; "all that matters is if you got the money" meaning if you get lucky enough to call out the wrong number to win and realize it afterwards, you got the money no matter what. There is nothing as satisfying as watching the race unfold just as you called it and backing a nice triple without wasting hardly any extra money on the race, but if you mistakenly called out the loser's number instead, you didn't get the money although you handicapped the race perfectly. I've made the mistake a few times of asking for the horses odds to win and place. I guess I'm thinking about the money. And concerning multiple horses to win, I very rarely bet that way but if someone tips two in a race to win, it's then up to me to complete the puzzle for my own satisfaction.