I forgot to mention - I didn't take the secs of those 1000m Tamworth maidens, but as I said in the earlier thread - over 1000m it is supposed to be all pace. If there are slowly run 1000m races out there (and there are!!) then that is further evidence against times. HEAPS of Aus races are slowly run, and the moment they are their time is meaningless. As you said, that's when we need secs , however, as I said, it's very difficult to apply a standard rule to a time and sectional to come out with a rating.