Dr Ron, yes basically the regular collects sit's well with me, I wouldn't say that I was totally useless at win betting just more successful at place betting. I did have some spectacular wins many years ago back in the days when I read the Sporting Chronicle form guide for Breakfast, Lunch and dinner, but it was only years later when I discovered "patience" and a more statistical approach that I started to make a small but constant profit, hopefully that will continue.