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  #1  
Old 4th January 2011, 11:59 AM
Barny Barny is offline
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Default Its a weighty issue

I just don’t get it. I find it hard to believe that weight is important when assessing a horses chances, within reason of course. Let’s consider two horses (Phatty & Skinny) both of similar ability (disregard the obvious if they’re both similar ability why aren’t they equally handicapped ?) and a race over 1600 mtrs where both are equal chances. Phatty has been been allocated 57 kgs and Skinny has been allocated 53 kgs. Now the first thing I suppose we would look at is the difference in weight of 4 kgs and try to figure out how that translates into an advantage or margin. I guess there would be a formulae for that. 4kgs is seen as a significant weight difference / advantage. Now let’s look at Phatty’s physical weight which is 520kgs, so Phatty has to lump 577kgs around 1600 metres. Skinny weighs 500kgs so Skinny has to lump 554kgs. 4kgs represents 0.69% of Phatty’s total weight and 4 kgs represents 0.72% of Skinny’s total weight, a difference between the two horses of 0.03%. How the heck can 0.03% difference in weight have any meaningful affect ? You could argue that this figure is counting the 4kgs twice?



Let’s further add that Phatty is carrying 52kgs of jockey and 5kgs of lead, but Skinny is carrying all the 53kgs in jockey weight. Do we take this into account?



Remember that 4kgs is seen as a significant weight advantage.



Further, Phatty usually races best when he’s around 505kgs and Skinny is only 5kgs off her best racing weight. So Phatty has got to lose 15kgs and Skinny 5kgs, that’s a difference of 10kgs. Does this count?



Is a horses excess body weight as significantl as the difference of handicapped weight between two horses?



Is 5kg of lead worse or better than 5kgs of jockey, I would think lead is worse, but how do you take that into account?



So we have 4kg advantage to Skinny compared with Phatty, (plenty of times you can read that one horse has a huge weight advantage over another). Where does this 4kg sit in respect to physical weight, handicapped weight, lead weight, and overall weight carried by the horse?





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  #2  
Old 4th January 2011, 05:06 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Interesting post Barny.

I believe the correct answer is a pineapple.
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  #3  
Old 5th January 2011, 08:06 AM
Sands Sands is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barny
Is a horses excess body weight as significantl as the difference of handicapped weight between two horses?
How about stayers that can go well over shorter journeys while "fresh"? Stayers are generally a bit heavier than sprinters from what I have read. Guess they would also be carrying more than average excess body weight while fresh as well.
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  #4  
Old 5th January 2011, 01:19 PM
system system is offline
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each horse to it,s own some carry weight some don't some sprint fresh some don't you can't paint them all with one brush.Take each horse on it's own merit's.
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  #5  
Old 5th January 2011, 03:13 PM
Barny Barny is offline
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Default

Bart Cummings has said “weight will stop a train”, which is a well known quote of his. I haven’t read any book on Bart Cummings but I do know that he and many other trainers put weight right up there as an issue. I am convinced that this is the trainers one percenters (much, much less than that actually) and their ego on display to demonstrate how hard the training game is, which it is I guess. How many times have you seen comments in the racing guide which say “Weight Certainty”, or ………. “Big Red” meets “Gunsynd” 2 ˝ kgs better off than when “Gunsynd” won by a half head over “Big Red”. 2 ˝ kgs for a half head result ??? ………. Mugs rush in and back “Big Red” and the bookies collect again.

>>

Strike weight from the top 10 filters from any system, it’s over rated I believe.
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  #6  
Old 6th January 2011, 07:48 AM
kumite kumite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barny
Strike weight from the top 10 filters from any system, it’s over rated I believe.

ignore to some extent for sprints maybe but should be considered in races over longer journeys i would think
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  #7  
Old 7th January 2011, 08:31 AM
wesmip1 wesmip1 is offline
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Default

another thread got me thinking.

We all think we know dead weight is worse then live weight (jockey). Something that could be looked at is how horses perform on the comparison from the miniimum weighted horse a jockey rides for the day. Its not perfect but it may give some insight on whether or not dead weight is worse for a horse to carry.
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