Good advice Joe. I tried this when I lived in Alice Springs. Terry Lillis (this was before the Internet; before Centrebet, before Gerard Daffy). He basically (but politely) fobbed me off with something along the lines of "I have my opinions" This was at a social function at Pioneer Park, and he wasn't annoyed or anything, At the Tennant Creek Cup (1995), I asked a bookie who was staying with friends nextdoor to my friends and GOT a similar reply. I actually have a slight idea, which you may be interested in Punter57@Hotmail.Com. It came to me SUDDENLY and could provide an answer. However, it's only for "ratings" types (which you are if I recall correctly, from our discussion of High Cee). Cheers