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  #181  
Old 13th November 2013, 08:12 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Thanks RP, although horses do get turned out for spells, very very rarely are they allowed to run with a herd and it made a huge difference.
I have also observed the biting behaviour and windsucking in most racing stables, the time they get away from the stable does not compensate for the seperation anxiety they experience.
Horses need other horses more than people need other people, and look at what happens to people in the lock up for years. By this I mean, like the Green Mile
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Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
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  #182  
Old 16th November 2013, 09:12 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Seems all the Super Striders are having a well deserved holiday, including short strider Altius.
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #183  
Old 29th November 2013, 07:22 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Love my Super Striders
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #184  
Old 6th December 2013, 11:44 AM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_vhDh5JCDqo?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is a video of Belle Couture, Black Caviar's little sister.
She did quite well in a jumpout.

There are a couple of very worrying signs however.
In the first part of the video, she keeps backing away from the trainer.
Horses don't really like to walk backwards by preference, they only do it when they feel in danger or fear.
Secondly in the latter part of the video she is pacing her stall and her ears are very laid back indicating she is not happy where she is.
Trainers don't seem to read horse body language very well at all, a lot of her energy is used up with anxiety. It will be interesting to watch her debut race, I'm sure her mental state will impact at a vital stage of her debut.
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #185  
Old 6th March 2014, 05:29 AM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Belle Couture was narrowly beaten when $1.50 favourite at Bendigo, then was set to run at Geelong on 8th of January, but was scratched and hasn't raced since.
There is much to take away from this as mentioned in the prior post.

Natural horsemanship is slowly trickling, albeit very slowly, into the racing world.
It's no secret that I train many horses using natural horsemanship myself and have seen the impact these methods have made to a horse's psychological welfare. Currently breaking in a 2yo stock horse that was unruly and slow to learn. Taking probably five times the amount of time a general horse breaker would take and advising the client that the horse needs time to be broken has paid dividends. Finally have the horse long reigning and moving forward and stopping purely by voice command. This is with only one two hour session per fortnight.

By using this technique, the horse still has not had a bit in his mouth and is extremely light and soft to rein commands.When we move to the bit, the horse will not fight the commands and will understand the signals, therefore his mouth will remain extremely soft and require the lightest of pressure by the rider.

The point of this, is to demonstrate the mental and physical benefits of natural horsemanship. Looking at head position, body posture, gait, eyes, ears. One can ascertain where the horse is at mentally. More importantly a happy horse does not expend energy pre race, loading, during the race, fighting rider and handlers. This wasted energy can make a huge difference between winning and losing when the margins are so tight.

If Belle Couture's head were in the right place, there's no doubt she would have won at Bendigo. Here is a very short video of her workout at Flemington followed by a look at her prior to breaking in

http://video.news.com.au/v/145557/B...tdyuxXkN_L3jWXA

You might notice, that by comparing her demeanor in both videos there is a marked difference. The breaking in process has made her extremely nervous and anxious.

Many race trainers have rubbished these ideas and stick by time honoured "hard" breaking techniques. However, there are a few owners and trainers that are starting to take notice. Most notable are the Queen, Gai Waterhouse and agent John Foote.

Storm Fabulador was originally trained in Melbourne, but Peter Moody soon advised he wouldn’t make the grade down south and sent him north to Ballina trainer John Everson.
He was sourced by Foote before being broken in by the “horse whisperer” Monty Roberts in California.
After switching trainers, Storm Fabulador won a BM55, a BM52, was only 1.6L away in a Lismore Cup, won a BM69, BM56, BM60, was a neck away in a BM75 and more recently won a Tatt's Club Handicap at Eagle Farm.
The horse required light handling and was better over distance. Something that Moody seemed to miss.
Foote spoke before the run at Eagle Farm:
"I've had Monty Roberts work with him [Storm Fabulador], and he's turned the corner. He's right mentally and weight-wise, he's so well placed today. I will be disappointed if he loses.''

Another example is the Queen's horse Carlton House trained by Gai and our last Melbourne Cup winner Fiorente. Both horses were worked with by Monty Roberts.
Waterhouse admitted she would be similarly non-plussed if Melbourne Cup hero Fiorente does not make a winning return in the Group 2 $220,000 Peter Young Stakes (1800m) at Caulfield. Fiorente was also worked with by Monty before his Melbourne Cup win.
Fiorente won that race as 10/9 Favourite.

Carlton House is still struggling.

The impact of a horse's mental condition and the way he is treated is a paramount part of his success, if he has the physical ability.
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg

Last edited by Chrome Prince : 6th March 2014 at 05:35 AM.
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  #186  
Old 7th March 2014, 10:12 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Fillies and Mares....

It's generally known that the handicapper usually gives age and or sex weight discounts. Generally it's accepted that this is purely based on perceived strength differences.
However, upon doing some analysis, the weight discount does not even the playing field.
So why is it that mares and fillies under perform and especially when competing against colts and geldings?

Having worked with fillies and mares they are often very nervous and have dual personalities. This can be based on being seasonal or just variation of temperament or attitude.
This would go further to explaining mixed form and form reversals.
Of course there are exceptions to this such as Makybe Diva and Black Caviar, but they are more even tempered or docile.
There are plenty of Youtube videos of Sunline's last race. She was clearly hyped up and mentally not right on her lead up to the barriers.

So the proposal I'm making is that strength has nothing to do with it. A brilliant mare or filly will beat the boys hands down every time providing she has shown consistent form.
Mares or fillies with mixed form or obviously toey or notoriously hard to load should be given significantly greater weight allowance when composing ratings. Unless the mare or filly is significantly good, definitely avoid taking short prices on those with yo yo form.
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #187  
Old 8th March 2014, 11:16 AM
jose jose is offline
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Took the old man along to see Monty Roberts in a show at the Boondal Entertainment centre a fair while ago. Gee he is a good man with a horse that bloke.
The old man was like a kid in a lolly shop, he lined up and got an autographed book and a photo etc.
Actually the old man was a bit before his time as well as he was breaking in horses using the "Jeffrey Method" as far back as I can recall. That method used kindness and firmness as opposed to cruelty I suppose.
I think a lot of this comes back to the horse itself though. As an example the old man and a mate of his broke in a horse each, the old man using the Jeffrey method and his mate using the old throw them on the ground and put the tackle on them, break their spirit type method.
When they were finished, both horses were roughly the same to handle and ride.

I have heard from a few old timers that it is not actually the breaking in that is most important but the work that is put into them once they are broken. In fact a few of them used to swear by giving a freshly broken horse to a drover for a few months to pour some work into them.
Bit long winded sorry, just got on a roll.
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  #188  
Old 8th March 2014, 04:28 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Natural horsemanship wins the day again.
Well done Fiorente

The mind makes the difference in a close finish.
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #189  
Old 11th March 2014, 04:54 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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So what's become of Altius, the best bred horse in the barn, with a short stride?
He's been sent to New Zealand to be trained by his part owner Mr T W Cole.
Mr Cole has entered his Group class horse in everything from Maidens to Opens in New Zealand.
Altius ran 2nd of 11 in a NZ maiden.
Then just got home by a nose in his next maiden start
Ran 3rd in a BM65 (beaten 4.3 lengths)
And finally 4th in an Open class race only beaten 0.4 lengths.

All this after GELDING him

His bloodline is gone, and he's no better for it.
As stated prior, he would have been best kept as an entire, doing striding exercises and going over jumps, now he's just a plodder with great bloodlines
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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  #190  
Old 12th April 2014, 07:47 PM
Chrome Prince Chrome Prince is offline
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Caulfield R4 #13 (b)(g)
Caulfield R5 #12 (b)
Caulfield R6 #4 (g) WON $6.20
Caulfield R7 #2 (b)

Doomben R7 #2 (b) WON $5.50

Morphettville R1 #9 (b)
Morphettville R1 #12 (b)
Morphettville R2 #5 (b) WON $1.60

Randwick R3 #12 (b)
Randwick R5 #10 (b)
Randwick R8 #2 (b)

(b) = blinkers FIRST time
(g) = gelded
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RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 409,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/10/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg
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