Don't handing that title over to Whyte to soon Prebble is only 3 wins behind and he is on fire he is the best jockey I have seen here in australia doubt we will ever see to much of him again.

Maybe Prebble will nab him, but then it will jsut be Prebble who'll start getting all the odds-on rides - it seems like racing over there is almost self-fulfilling for jockeys.

which probably does just underline how good prebble is

Good Morning all,

What a response to my Beadman post...

This raises another question... We have many good jockeys in Sydney metrpolitan and provincial meetings...

So how do we rate them? I hate sitting around and saying Bill is a better performer than Jack but after all we are here to make money so if we can rate jockeys in the same way we rate horses and tracks... For that matter we should also rate trainers and their staff and traning facilities..

( Gai Waterhouse would also have us rate RanVet feed)

Ok, everybody throw your two-bob's worth in,

How do we rate JOCKEYS and TRAINERS...

Kind Regards
ad have a nice day
OzPunter

For Jockeys:

Total rides over say last 3mths. divided into total win SP odds to establish an average win SP per ride [for the place, use the same formula except divided into total place SP].

For Trainers;

Total runners over last 3 mths. divided into total win SP odds ...

Don't ask me where you would get the stats though :-)

I know where I can get the stats including SP odds? But why not TAB odds, much the same thing really..

Shouldn't we remove runners paying over say $5.00 or even $10.00 because these runers are not really given a chance, but jockeys have to ride something, to get paid and pay the bills etc..

SP odds are for whatever betting source used. TAB SP's would give an accurate starting point to adjust to any other betting source [eg: Betfair + 15 to 20%].

I wouldn't remove any prices unless over say $20, as some riders get up a lot on outsiders. The odd win up to $20 wouldn't make much difference to average price for jockeys mainly getting home on shorties.

Well, what I was getting at is that some jockeys ride a lot of horses.. what we should be trying to measure is the jokeys skill when the runner has got a reasonable chance.. If I take the TAB market and count wins against rides at any price the results will be lowered because some of those rides weren't a serious chance...

I'll have to count wins against rides for a range of prices by gouping prices up to say $100.00 i.e < $2.00, $2.01 - $3.00, $3.01 - $5.00, $5.01 - $8.00, $8.01 - $12.00 etc...

(we can always adjust the figures to suit the results... Gosh I love Stats)..

I have a few things to attend to but I'll look into it soon and let you know the results.

The other way to look at it is to see how many rides a jockey has and work out what kind of wage he is taking home, then add his cut in prizemoney and see which ones are living a high flying lifestyle, and which are the battlers.. Logically the battlers would be the lesser skilled riders... But I'll let someone else ponder that one...



Kind Regards
OzPunter

A couple of examples from Racenet:


Last 12 months
----------------
Beadman-

Rides: 761
Wins: 188
Seconds: 125
Thirds: 120
Strike Rate: 1 winner every 4 rides
Strike Rate Percentage: 24.7
Prizemoney: $12,514,412
Av. prizemoney per win: 66,566
------------------------------------------
Oliver-
Rides: 354 [away with injury for awhile]
Wins: 67
Seconds: 54
Thirds: 40
Strike Rate: 1 winner every 5.3 rides
Strike Rate Percentage: 18.9
Prizemoney: $5,416,500
Av. prizemoney per win: 80,843
------------------------------------------

I don't know where to find total SP for all the rides of Jockeys, but by averaging the total prizemoney it gives an idea of the class of race won. The higher the class of races won by various jockeys would generally suggest better SP's overall I think.

It is easy to work out from both the above SR's the average odds we would need to make a profit. Following both [or any other jockies] on all rides would be a quick road to the poor house. Another thing with top jockeys is they tend to guarantee poor betting value almost every time... and that's another quick road to the poor house!

I agree in principle crash, but we are getting a little off the beam... What the objective is is to find a way to rate the jockeys one against another so we can include it in our race assesments and say, "if I rate these two runners equal, which has the better jockey", (and therefore the greater chance of winning)..

I like the principle of including prizemoney as it would help seperate the good provincial jockeys from the metropolitan jockeys who also ride in the provincial areas.

We also need a way to show "current status" against other jockeys as you will have noticed that some jockeys have bad runs and others have good ones... You can rate a jockey poorly because of some past performance but you need to detect those that are "on a roll", where they have periods that nothing can go wrong and they could win on a rocking horse... Like all of us they have family pressures and other things influencing their lives... "Off" days (or periods) and "On days" or periods.

If there are any past jockeys or current jockeys listening in we'd love to hear your comments, and let me say that if you are monitoring these conversations, please don't take anything said personnally... We all have great respect for the difficult job you do, it takes guts to jump on top of a 500kg+ horse doing 60kph and try to steer it in a race... Me personnally, I would be scared sh??less...In a 72 second 1200 meter race my eyes would be closed tight for 100% of the time.

As a youger buck I used to help work trotters and having just two running side by side is scarry enough believe me...

Kind Regards
OzPunter

If you had backed ALL of Beadman and Oliver's last 100 rides, you would have made a profit. That's every single one of their last 100 rides.