Dale,

Yes there is often a big difference between the two.

Cheers.

Thanks Crash i thought as much.

Perhaps you or someone out there could help me out.

I'm was wondering if past and present zipform ratings can be accesed anywhere over the internet?

Dale,

I think you might have a problem there.

I buy Wed/Sat. Sportsman [and the winning post for comments] but I don't keep them. I Keep a few things but like a fresh start every week [in otherwords my wife throws them out].

I find the Zip better than any rateing service I have ever tried and I get you drift on what you are trying to do.

There is probably room for several systems that should work ok based on the zip as an initial horse rateing to start with. Just add some sensible hadicapping rules and bingo. The hard part is sticking to it and not betting outside my hadicapping rules. I basicaly try to do that and profits [or lack off] tend to reflect how much I have stuck to it.

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-25 07:25 ]

I'm wondering about how the Wizard ratings compare to the Zipform, or if using the Wizard in the same way would produce similar outcomes?

Gee shoto, I don't know about the Wizard. I was buying it from when it first came out for a long time [as well as the Sportsman and the Globe initialy]. I only get the Wizard occasionally now to see how it's faring. I don't think it holds a candle to the Sportsman. Having said that, their is some form info. in the Wizard that could be used with Sporsman's Zip. Trat for instance. By itself a lot of there info is fine but it tends to go pear shaped when they put it togeather.

There will be plenty that disagree and to each his/her own but Wizard's ratings [by themself] are just a fancy tecno looking Malcom Knowles Pic Wis system put to paper [I have it on floppy with the manual]. Useful but not in the same class as Sportsman in my humble opinion.

Sportsman's zip [amongst other things including their new sectionals] as a rating beats the Wizards "system" most of the time and I have had lots of practise comparing the two over the years. The top Zip wins far more often than Wizards top rater. Wizard's form comments are lax [they miss a lot of important info. not in the form figures] compared to say the Winning Post's more astute info and pre post prices [first four regularly gets most of the winners]. That mag. for comment and Sportsman for form study and info. is the go for me anyway. I put my selections and any other info. I might need onto the W/P and only use that when at the track or ealsewhere.

Punters may feel "uncertain" using the Sportsman by itself because of the lack of form comment. I used to and probably still would without the W/Post for comment. It provides the security blanket. Best Bets is very good too I hear.

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-26 18:18 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-26 18:26 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-26 18:32 ]

SHOTO.you probably could use the wizard for the thunderbolt.
the wizards advantage is their FIELD STRENGTH FIGURE,and if using that wouldnt go past +3 TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY LIKELY IMPROVER.i much prefer to only go to +1.5.
for that extra $5.50 a week it would pay to buy both.

cheers.darky/

Thanks Crash and Darky.
I manually enter the top 3 Wizard selections (Wrat) into my database each week. From what you're saying Crash I think maybe I should do the same for the Zipform (at least the top one anyway). Over the course of time there might be some interesting comparisons. I'll post anything worthwhile that comes of it.

[ This Message was edited by: shoto on 2003-09-26 23:28 ]

Since the start of this thread [that got me thinking about useing the zip for a system], I have been working on one and I tried it out for the first time last night at Moonee Valley.
The main goal was a system that didn't just lead to the fav., provided a reasonable amount of action and spat out selections at a quick glance only.

From the eight races the system produced five selections.
The most important rule was: Must be within top three lines of Zip figures. Interestingly, race one winner was top zip, race two winner was 4 lines from top, race three was 2 lines from top paying 17.60 and race six was three lines from top also paying very well. Race 7 winner was third line from top at $6 somthing. 6 from 7 races within the top 3 Zip.


The selections were:
R/3 Anfield. Third
R/4 Casual Pass. Won 8.20
R/5 Applicant. Won 5.20 [top zip]
R/6 Gumboot. Unp.
R/7 Tendency Unp.
Not a bad result from a hard night race meeting.

I had $20 win only on all of them to see how it went. Now wish I had staked a lot more !

I was suprised. Especialy Casual Pass winning the Stutt from the outside alley. However, the Callow/Ellerton combo has a 50% SR over the past 12mths. as I have written ealsewhere on the forum. That team has few starts but worth noticing when they are on. Callow won 3 from 6 rides.

Early days for this system but if it can keep performing as well as last night I think it might be a goody.

Will post some selections here later this morning [for today] to see how it goes again.

Cheers.



[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-27 07:58 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-27 09:03 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-27 09:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-27 09:11 ]

Will see how the system performs at the hardest meeting of the day. A couple of favorites came up but that would be expected at this meeting.

Ranwick
R1/1 Fixated
R2/3 Square one
R3/5 Looking
R4/7 Hansa
R5/6 Dashing away
R6/1 Lonhro
R7/1 Fiery Venture
R8/nil
R9/3 Gullcatcher

Cheers.

Well that lot went pear shaped. Interestingly all winners [except the $23 bolter in R/8] were all within the top 3 Zip with 4 winners in the top 2 and only one SP favorite amoungst all the winners. Top 3 Zips could have been dutched for a comfortable winning day.

Dale, I tried initialy with your original plan but ended up with all winners [including the bolter] with top jockeys and trainers [the top 5 trainers and jockeys were in every race] so actual choice came down to top win% only more or less.

I also added must have finished 1,2,3,4 in 3 of last 4 starts [one open for a bad run] or if first start from a spell, won first up last prep. Must have won at the distance, from top 3 win % lines and top 3 Zip. If more than one contender. top win %. Best TAB number or top Zip would have produced a better result than above although it was a very hard meeting full of suprises. Rule about finishing positions wasn't a good one at this meeting. Stuffed it completely. Any ideas for improvement ?

A way to add Wizard F/S and Trat maybe to above rules would produce somthing better but 7 top 3 zip winners point to Zip as a main qualifier. Nobody here seems to buy Sportsman AND the Wizard all the time. Well at least I tried something out.

Sportsman/Wizard, a bit like football clubs ? Possibly so.

Cheers.



[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-28 07:23 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-28 07:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-09-28 07:47 ]