IMO the basis of what Crash was stating that the more you bet into negative markets the greater the risk of losing and the fact is that more than 95% of punters are losers.

However, the amount of bets an indiviudual punter has depends very much on the modus operendi.

There is one professional punter (as in its his only source of income) I know that frequents the Randwick auditorium on an almost daily basis, having done so for many years, and he has thousands of bets per week and he is a long-term winner.

Notwithstanding, Crash is more right than wrong in what he has stated on this issue, it's akin to betting at the casino or playing the pokies - both offer negative markets and while there will be a few winners, most will lose.

It's the nature of gambiling - how else would governments and the gambiling providers stay in business.

True La Mer,

It's important to note that one has to be selective to turn a negative market into a positive one. How selective is the grey area.

I think you'll find that the successful punters that are betting high volumes of bets per day, are not win/place bettors but those chasing innacuracies in the exotic pools.

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To add to that it is possible to bet more than one horse for a win per race and gain around 10% profit on turnover.

A punter could be betting 4 horses a race in 10 to 15 races a day,in this case he is not being selective with the amount of horses he bets but in the races he bets on.

Dale, it is possible to gain for more than 10% POT by Dutch Booking, my current POT doing just that is over 30%, backing between one and three horses per race, some of which are saver bets.

So long as you have the ability to produce reliable ratings (or have them supplied by a ratings provider) and sticking strictly to only betting when there is 'value' based on those ratings then it is quite possible to make a nice little earner on the punt.

wHATS THE USE?

GIVE UP CRASH,i CERTAINLY HAVE.

aS MY MY DEAR OLD DEPARTED DAD USED TO SAY,YOU CANT EDUCATE MUGS.

i COULD GIVE YOU CLOWNS A PLACE SYSTEM THAT HAS CONSISTENTLY PRODUCED A 90% S/R FOR 4 YEARS NOW,BUT WHY SHOULD i??? YOU CANT EVEN REPLY TO ANY OF MY P[OSTS WITH ANY POSITIVIVITY.

sO JUST KEEP GOING ALONG YOUR MERRY LOSING WAY.

i TRIED MY BEST TO EDUCATE ABOUT QUINELLA BETTING TO PRICES.

HOWLEDS DOWN.

THE QUINELLA MARKET IS THE MOST PROFITABLE OF ALL THE EXOTICS,IF YOU BET TO PRICES.

BUT NOBODY BELIEVES ME.

TO PROVE MY POINT BEFORE i DEPART THIS FORUM,i WILL PUT SOME SUGGESTED QUINELLAS AND UNITS TO BET ON EACH ONE FOR SELECTED RACES THIS COMING SATURDAY.

hOWL ME DOWN AFTER THAT IF YOU WISH.

SEE YA

Don't know what your problem is angel... But surely there is no need to shout.

My goodness gracious me!
This man has hit the nail on the head.
If only I had the willpower to walk out of a tote or track after 13 minutes.
Remember that we are all experiencing entertainment at our pursuit as well.
If Kenchar gets off prematurely good luck to him.
I'm more of a stayer

The truth is the truth buddy.
Don't matter whether one or a million an' one agree!

Kenny,
A negative market is a negative market. If you are one of the lucky ones and are winning in it. The only reason you would be doing so is that you are smart enough to make it a positive one for yourself and have joined the 5% of very smart punters. If everyone is a winner, where does the profit come from ? The negative market the other 95% of punters belong too of course.

In reply to syllabus snide comment about how do I know how many bets pro punter's have, You obviously haven't heard of the Ausrace forum. A lot of big bet pro punters there. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an invite from another member to join though so you can post. It's an em forum but I think you can [still?] view the banter on site [you might learn something].

Angel417
quote::"wHATS THE USE?
GIVE UP CRASH,i CERTAINLY HAVE.
aS MY MY DEAR OLD DEPARTED DAD USED TO SAY,YOU CANT EDUCATE MUGS"

Great advise.

Well there are few of smart cookies here who get my point [boy, it wasn't that difficult]. The rest of you Flat Earther's can sod off back into La La land and I hope all your winning bet tickets [if any] get put through the wash :-)

Hello Crash, thanks for your reply to my post. Drivel eh? ... you smooth talking devil LOL.



Perhaps I have not explained myself well enough. The premise of your original post was :

---

My point here is to refute the the belief that most punters here [or anywhere for that matter], punt to win money. The love of the sport and any other reasons are secondary. It's a nonsense. Profit comes last for most punter's reasons for punting.

No one will argue that really, because we all know that a very smnall percentage of punters actually punt for a living. It's a given that everyone here knows full well.

Your argument re smaller number of bets versus larger number of bets..still does not stack up in my view and in my reply I wrongly assumed that you would agree that a professional punter backs to a percentage of his working capital.

Now, given that a professional punter bets to a percentage of his working capital, (and bets in units) my comments about high bets high turnover low profit percentage versus small number of bets, low turnover high percentage profit on turnover stack up completely. Surely, anyone who has actually done this for a living will agree with me. i.e. the unit amount is the same for both methods.

If one bets the same perecentage of bank in both methods, all of my earlier comments ring absolutely true.

If I could cut and paste my two methods (which I cannot) you could clearly see how the high bets, high turnover, low strike rate, low profit margin generates more actual income for me than my low turnover, low number of bets ,high strike rate, high percentage profit margin method does.

Do you agree? It doesnt bother me if you dont. I have lived that life of professional punter and I know full well that I need both plans to survive in comfort. It is al;l about spreading the risk and evening out the lean periods that every method endures at some point..

I trust that you will enjoy your holiday. Have Fun