Thanks Becareful,

You have put into Maths. exactly what I was feeling about 80% strike rates and very short place odds ...the possible long enough loosing run would hit it with just enough regularity to make a grown man weep.

However, I think the system was a parley approach over a linking all up in series of threes or somthing.

Everyone can now forget Divi+ for the place. They are shorter than the Tote. Some recent place returns; T/420 Divi+/394.8, T/364 D/338.8, T/644 D/624.4

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-25 07:09 ]

Thanks for the the replies everyone. Much appreciated. Just a few observations:

Crash
- I was after an idea of how many favourites placed, not won, at the dogs.
- You don't have to bet on every race. Let them go if you are not ready. Especially with the dogs there will be another along very shortly!!
- becareful is correct in that you never get Diviplus for the place on the dogs (not even the horses come to think of it). It is the NSWTab plus the odd cent or two.
- Testarosa's plan is a parlay approach --- and, of course, this is its strength.

Just a simple example:
A mixture of three horse races and one dog race on Saturday last gave (for a place) dividends of $2.30, $1.10 (yes, Lonrho), $1.50, and $1.50.
Starting with four bets of $10 and parlaying them according to the system, the outcomes were $34, $37.80; $52.80, and $31.50 -- a total of $156.10 (including the original $40.00). For me not a bad return anyway. A lot of fun --- and the worse possible result being a loss of $30.00 (because the fourth $10 would not have come into play if you missed on the first bet).

becareful
- it gets very frustrating when something showing $1.80, $2.00 or similar for the place end up a few seconds later as $1.04 at the start. Tell me about it!! But it does work the other way too. Something showing only $1.10 or money back a few moments before the start can pay $1.50, $1.80, etc at the start.
I guess it is because the punter at the pub or TAB rushes in to double his money when a sure thing is showing $1.90 or the like a minute or so before the start (and so shortens). Whereas if $1.10 showing it is of no interest (and insisting on having a bet) the 'mug' punter puts the money on another dog and so the favourite blows out a bit at the last moment. Trust this tortuous reasoning makes sense to all :???:

Merriguy,

Yes Divi+ does now take Place bets. My above examples were actual returns to my account from Place dividens recently. I only realized I was geting short changed when I started noting down in my books the TAB price for comparison. It's a very poor deal.

Cheers.

Hi Crash. I think you are wrong about Diviplus and place betting. Below is what I just got off their site a few moments ago about Diviplus:

"(Online & Telephone)

Guarantees you a higher dividend or payout than the highest dividend paid by any of the three Australian Totalisators
Available on all Thoroughbred race meetings in Australia
Win Only bets accepted"

Betadiv gives you a few cents more for the place compared with the largest operator (NSWTab). It is therefore quite possible to get a better pay out (often substantially more) from one of the other tabs. But, of course, as distinct from Diviplus (for the win) you have to monitor all tabs.

:cry:

Merriguy,

Sorry but their claims are wrong with regard to the place bet.

My comments stem from ACTUAL bets this week.
You have some bets [open an account first] and note down Tote payout and see if Divi+ pays more. It wont. Not ever.
That's the real proof I'm afraid, not the advertizing blurbs you are accepting and quoting as fact. Nor do Divi+ make any claims anywhere that they pay more than the Tote for "the Place".
That advert. you quoted is left over from when they only accepted Win bets and I am taking the matter up with them [and futher if I have too, as it is now misleading advertizing they have been getting away with for too long. They have had plenty of time to change it].

You obviously don't bet with Divi+ because you stated that Divi+ doesn't except place bets and now you are saying they pay more than the Tote for the Place [?]. If you had been beting with them you would have known they have been accepting place bets for some time [on the horses, trots and dogs].

Sorry, I'm not trying to be harsh here, but anybody reading these posts deseve to know the real situation so as not to fall prey to Advert. fallacies [which are more often than not, just that to suck people in].

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 12:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 12:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 12:14 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 12:23 ]

Somehow, I think, we have our wires crossed here Crash.

The first race today from Benalla (a few minutes ago) --- the winner paid $4.18 for a place (Betadiv); didn't pay anything for the place (Diviplus); and paid respectively for the place:
NSWTab $4.10
STab $3.60
Unitab $4.40

So 8 cents more than NSWTab (on which Betadiv is paid) --- but you would have done better on Unitab (and worse on SuperTab).

Those returns are all laid out for you on the IAS site, and you can confirm them on the various Tab sites.

Yes maybe crossed wires.
When I say "Divi+" I obviously mean the AIS site.

Divi+ is the win bet and Beta Divi is their Place bet and the fixed odds is well, their fixed odds.

I have not trawled for examples to find instances of worse than tote examples, but the ones I provided are from my books and are correct.
My last entry since then was Murwillumbah R/2 yesterday, Defend ran third and payed me $171.00 for a $100 place bet [beta divi] and the Tote paid $2.00 which would have returned $200 [please check this one as I am not going to list all my bets and payouts].

Maybe it's the luck of the draw, but I havn't found ONE Place payout in my books that payed more than the Tote. They obviously do happen then but I havn't experienced it yet worse luck.
I agree with your above price as I have just checked it but that race payout alone does not make their payouts "alway" better than Tote [certainly never in my place bets but I obviously have just missed out when they do pay better]. I am going to monitor their payouts just to see what ticks. Somthing is maybe fishy...and their adverts. are still incorrect as far as money in the hand goes.

Cheers.

Merriguy, I was correct. I have just checked the Tote [I live in Vic] and the Place results for the last 4 races at Benalla are:

Tote R1/[winner] 3.60

T/R2 1.60 AIS 1.31

T/R3 2.10 AIS 1.92

T/R4 5.00 AIS 4.38

That to me is under Tote odds [most of the time]. One under price Tote place divi does not invalidate my point that AIS pays unders consistently and in all cases I can find here in my Books. I obviously cant monitor all and every past/future race, but 3 out of 4 here and every bet I have collected on being less from AIS than Tote surely point to my claims being as stated [excluding the odd exception].

Cheers.


[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 13:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 14:17 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-26 14:21 ]

Haven't had the chance to look at the details of your last posting, Crash, until a few minutes ago. We are getting somewhere!!

If you bet for the win you will get the best of the three TABs (plus a few cents) from AIS --- this they call Diviplus (and it is now available every day --- used to be only Sat., I think). Of course those few cents can soon add up as dollars if you are betting $100 plus.

If you are betting the place you only get the NSWTab price (plus a few cents), and this is what they call Betadiv.

As I said in an earlier posting this may be better --- or worse --- than a particular TAB's return. The only way around this is, of course, to monitor all three TABs and have an account with each {except NSW whose price you will be gettting as Betadiv if you have an AIS account****. Phew!!

While on the subject, does anyone know where you can monitor all three easily? I'm sure I have seen the possibility somewhere. I just have all three pages open and switch from one to the other. A bit inconvenient if you have a lot of bets.

[ This Message was edited by: Merriguy on 2003-08-27 12:12 ]

Merriguy,
You can see all three totes live from cyberhorse.com.au

You need to register first (free). You find the odds on the form page, where one of the dropdown lists is 'RTO' - real time ods. You get a pop-up showing live tote prices, with the best marked in colour.

Thanks, Shoto. Didn't realise that possibilty was there even though I have been a memmber for some time now. Appreciated.