BJ, as moeee stated, I have NEVER said you can't win at gambling. I also NEVER said that you can't win at roulette. You can win at both, and you can (more importantly) gain an edge at both.

Winning while gambling is a given. It's just that without an edge, you are very likely to lose more than you win.

You are confusing win with having an edge. Anyone can win at gambling. I play a hand of BJ, and dealer busts. I win!!! But does that mean I can keep winning? No. To do that, you either have to be extremely lucky or have an edge.

To win at roulette longterm, you need an edge. What I'm arguing is that you can't get an edge based on something like a betting system. There are other ways to win, and I have stated what they are.

"They are designed so the punters lose. This doesn't mean however, that all punters lose."

That is what I argued above. Most will lose, some will win. However, the longer those winners play, the greater the effect the odds will have, and most of those winners will lose.

"He says this and that and everyone just bows down and accepts it"

No, this forum has plenty of arguements, they're just normally constructive (unlike this one).

"Roulette provides the best odds of all gambling, so if you cannot beat roulette, you cannot win at gambling...."

Roulette does not provide the best odds at all. Blackjack is generally where people will get the best odds, with an average house edge of 0.5 to 0.6% in Aus. This is playing Basic Strategy.

However, you can get even better odds (enough to give you an edge, and turn the table of the bookies and casinos). You do this by using a method of advantage play. This includes card counting, cheating, roulette prediction computer, handicapping (analyzing for racing & sports), sharpshooting (craps), video poker, poker etc etc.

If there is a way to gamble, there is probally a way to beat it. It's just that most people don't know what it takes.

BJ, I'm arguing strongly here because I know for a fact that betting systems do not provide an advantage, and so gamblers are unlikely to profit longterm.

If people are profiting at roulette, then good for them. I'm just making them aware that they don't have an edge, and gambling without an edge almost always leads to losing.

Just joined this forum and was reading all about this hotly disputed debate on whether roulette can be a winner for gamblers. What I would like to see from thefan is for you to post this system that you preach highly about.

It will not ruin your profits and may give your comments a heap of credibility.

Anyway just a suggestion

"Mr J can come across a little bit harsh sometimes.He tends to be very black and white."

True, but that's because gambling is very back and white. Either you have an edge or you don't. Bet long enough with an edge and you are very likely to profit. Bet long enough without an edge and you are very likely to lose.

With roulette, I have provided the facts, it's up to other people to decide for themselves. Good for them if they see they light, and good luck to them if they don't.

When I first started gambling (using a progression on blackjack), I thought the same say as some of the guys in this thread. I met some sharp guys, and they said exactly what I say now. I wised up and looked at betting with an edge.
I'm really doing these guys a favour, in that they might not have to learn the hard way. In the end it's up to them.

There is no argument here. Mr J is correct.

I used to work as a dealer also-you can spin the ball pretty much wherever you want on a section of the wheel (as you can on the Big Wheel). This is the only way you can win at roulette in the long run-no system can beat the maths.

jinxycroupier, I don't know where you work, but, for management to instruct you to try and make punters lose is just a bunch of crap-and if you're doing it off your own bat, then you're just a prick to try and take advantage of your poor, dumb, addicted, uneducated fellow punter

BJ, I think you need to check your maths mate "Roulette provides the best odds of all gambling, so if you cannot beat roulette, you cannot win at gambling...." umm hello???

thefan, "Im sorry but I dont care what all the critics say about roulette.I lost more money on racing. Ive profit big time with roulette.

So u guys who dis roulette can guarantee me I make a comfortable livin playing whatever u play. No form of gambling is safe proof. Look at this weeks soccer results. Sh1t happens."

Mate, good luck to you! We're simply saying that in the long run it is a mathematical fact that you will lose. No argument. You're right-no form of gambling is foolproof, but, if you continually take "overs" (as opposed to the "unders" you are taking at roulette) and you use a proven staking plan, you will win.

It all depends on how good your initial pricing is...

So the next question would have to be what staking plan are you using and what is your initial pricing structure?

Well, I don't think anyone is going to volunteer that sort of information in depth...

And it obviously depends on the sport and event as to how you do your OWN prices. Everyone has their OWN method. One thing I will repeat, is that you CAN'T BEAT THE MATHS! You have to make it work for you.

As for staking, I think everyone should read Kelly's work...

im not gonna prove my point by telling the world. I know that Ive beaten roulette with my system. Roulette has beaten me because Ive used other **** systems out there. Ive spent countless hours at roulette watching the ball land. You guys will probally say every spin is unique. TRUE!If you think the house has the edge,think again. In my system zeros are backed to back up the system. I can go on all day about how Ive taken literally bundles of money from roulette. Long term Ive profited.All I can say is ppl r telling me longterm I'll lose out.
Besides roulette can anyone tell me a form of gambling that you have actually profited from long and short term. Ill give that a shot then???
Ive searched all areas of the internet and have not found my system in existence.

Whoever disagrees with anything Mr J is saying is an absolute mug. Just because you may make profits even long term profits using staking plans, without using one of the methods outlined by Mr J you are walking a tightrope every time you play. Unless you are a very good acrobat (extremely lucky) you will fall off and thats when you break your bank and your balls.

No point Mr Ed, they're not about to listen. Let them learn the hard way :wink: