I still see punters fiddling around the edges trying to find that elusive Holy Grail. There appear to be some successful punters on here working the odds which is great for them, but for the rest who post on here regularly I despair for some of them. If they're only having a bit of fun at the punt then that's fair enough, but for mine, if some of these people were betting heavily then thery're losing heavily. It stands out that most punters do not have a plan, yet they punt enough money per annum to suggest that they should have a plan. You don't have to be a big punter to turn over $50k. I'm sure these very same people if offered a working stake in a business for the sum of $50k would do their due diligence. But mug punters are well named. The top currency traders in the world all have a plan and all share similar traits. 1) These people maximise their profits and cut their losses short, without mercy. That's the exact opposite to 99% of punters, I need not use examples, you only need to go and look in the mirror and know that plenty of times you've locked in a small profit, yet done some stupid things when you've been behind on the day, you've chased your losses. 2) These successful traders, trade with systems that suit their personality. Some are in and out of a trade withing a hour, some a day, some a week, some consider a short trade a few weeks, some keep a trade open for months, but the important element here is that the successful ones trade in a way that suits their personality. 3) They dont used scared money.

Permit me to use whole numbers hore so it's easier to understand. The TAB takes out 20% so that means that we only have to be 20% better than the average punter to break even (yup I know down 20% = you need +25% but the TAB doesn't take out as much as 20%). There are other means of betting where you can improve your dividends above the TAB.

There are systems that win year in and year out so why fight it? There have been systems posted on here that continue to win year in and year out. I could not believe why punters didn't take these systems and go and make some money from them, but it's now very clear to me that for someone to successfully use a winning system it has to 1) match their personality otherwise it's useless to them and 2) they must resist the temptation to "make it better", most will want to put their own stamp on it thus rendering it useless. There was a comment on here many moons ago that you could write the best system in the world on the pavement outside Randwick and no-one would take notice of it. I couldn't understand it at the time but I sure as ******** get it now.

People who lose on the stockmarket blame their losses on those who manipulate stocks, in other words they don't know how to win. Same with the punt. "There's no such thing as a winning system". Like the top currency traders you need to be on top of your game and be on the lookout for changes, but one thing that stays constant is the publics approach to gambling, greed, the fear of losing, the emotions behind the odds, the myths that have been around for a hundred years. These are constants and the better punters can take advantage of them.

If you can come up with half a dozen systems that show a POT of around 10% (if you can't then you really shouldn't be punting) - Go for it when you start winning and back off (reduce the size of your bets) when you're losing. You can then win consistently and win long term. It's a shame that management are bound to delete posts that refer to commercial organisations for fear of defamation, because I could prove beyond doubt how to profit with freely available information. For those with databases, I'm sure they'll agree that there are winning systems to be had and myths to be busted, and for those without a database then NO, I'll not provide you any systems. My very best filters are 1) race prizemoney - fair / decent horses can only go so far and then class will get to them, but it's surprising how far they can go when they're in form, hence the never ending argument about class, especially when the raw data spills over into Group races and 2) the sex of the beast and 3) the SP - this is a must have as it can tell you what the form doesn't but also it can stop you backing 40/1 pops when their true odds should be 500/1 and keeps you out of the shorties in certain events.

The greatest larfff is Ratings .....

Couldn't agree less Barny, although I'm sure not all successfull punters need them.

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"Not winning on a horse that came first is one thing.....Losing on a horse that didn't come first is something else entirely!!!"

The same old, same old, Barny. Just another lengthy script with no substance. Always telling Joe public that it can be done without any proof to back it up. Boring, boring, boring.

Personally, I think you are trying to defend your own lack of judgment on the punt. The greatest larfff is you laddie.

I did not mind reading the long winded thread. But to cull some of it, each "system" does seem to fit someone's "personality".
However, there IS plenty of innovative talent out there when the average punter is concerned.
But what happens is this, it's the dilemma of the three-sum.
1. The innovator.
2. Builder
3. Financier.

The innovator needs the builder ( punter-programmer)
The programmer needs the financier to pay for stuff to be developed, based on the innovator.

Same goes with rock stars, Elvis could sing, he needed a manager who can't sing, and the manager needed a recording studio to make records to sell.

Who ends up getting screwed in a business , in principle?

Answer is, the innovator, the one with the idea.

Same with this game here.
One has a "system" on paper, but needs a programmer, who needs to get paid, first.
So the man with the money comes along, finances the "system", and runs away with the programmer.

And on it goes, same ol same ol......

hear hear bernie

OK Bernie, which parts do you disagree with ??, or is it too close to the bone Bernie ??

It is true the TAB does take out a large % of the pot.

But at the same time - most punters now take advantage of the Best of three totes or Betfair which reduces the takeout.

I doubt any profitable punter would use one TAB to place their bets.

Bernie, I'd be the worlds biggest mug to try and prove a point to you and post what's taken me hundreds and hundreds of hours to compile, plus a lifetime's worth of interest, plus hard copy records older than Methuselah!~! I'll tell you tho', if you keep it simple, what worked 50 years ago works today, and too much effort is expended on the subtle (weights excluded) changes in racing. A lot of posters on here would strongly disagree with that statement Bernie, but they're not to know what methods I'm using.

Go back and have a look at the old posts here Bernie, the ones that discussed systems, unlike now where there's mainly discussion about laying longshots, Betfair and the like, very few systems put up for discussion, Top 10 sires is an exception.

It seems like you struggle to understand a post about ideas Bernie, you might be the type that likes everything put in front of him so he doesn't have to think, and that's fair enough too Bernie. Maybe if you want substance you could lead by example.

Here's a bit of substance Bernie. Go and research an old poster called crash. Not widely recognised as a systems enthusiast, he was a handicapper, but he put up one of the best systems on here, you'll need to make a slight modification but it's one of the very best. Also Bhagwan's systems LSW 7 days with a tweak, Partypoopers Topweight systems, Privateers Pareto system, Equine Investor, Punter57 was a beaut too, there's more systems than you could poke a stick at Bernie ..... there's substance for you Bernie, all you have to do is do a little work and a bit of testing. Hope I've been of some help here Bernie and just put your bad day on the punt down to lack of research and endeavour.

Long winded and ... I'm guessing ...

Most of what you say is quite pertinent Barny and congratulations,
On having a go, however the title of the thread sums up what,
I think of the ratings comment.

Good luck on whatever approach you use.

Cheers.
Garyf.

That's an interesting post you punched out, Puntz.

Somewhere along the line, there must have been an innovator who got it right, played it smart, didn't get screwed etc etc Having said that, perhaps it's best to innovate 2nd, 3rd(4th) in line i.e. improve what's already there which if done with insight and inspiration can be a masterpiece in itself. In fact, nothing is completely new. That thread that winds through evolution itself?

Innovation. Creative destruction.Something dies, something else is born?

Back to your initial example however and a new slant perhaps; is there a central force / role that pulls these 3 together and focuses their efforts in the one direction as a team? Manager? Director?

Have been recently reading up on what makes some people excellent at creating new ideas and bringing the right people together to make stuff happen, whilst others are actually much better suited at the grunt work of getting the job done, project launched, problems ironed out etc etc. Point being, they need to leverage off each other to pull the rabbit out of the hat. Neither can do it alone. Next point being, they also need to be similar in some fundamental ways to get to the altar, if you get my drift.

Back to the punt and here in this forum, have noticed that some of the very best breakthroughs seem to be born out of 2 people knocking heads together in a constructive way and swapping notes, adding bits and pieces from their own mindsets, preferences, styles, obsessions, experiences to creating something new. Some of this happens 'off line' but that's ok too.
Some of the best recent examples include The Sires thread by The Schmile or Neural lays by messers michaelg , speedy, RP etc

This forum at it's best is a place of synergy, symbiosis, inspiration, creation, creative destruction. Old stuff dusted down and made new. New stuff chewed up and spat out. It may not be the 'real world' as we know it, but every gamut that makes us human is jam packed in here with us too... despair, hope, sadness, guilt, anger, envy, euphoria !

Somehow, those(most?) of us who come back every day wouldn't have it any other way. And for some of us, this might just be the most positive focus of our every day lives. Take that as you will, but best to have some focus and a + one than none at all?

Good post, Mr Puntz.

Cheers LG

PS respect due to Barny too, for 'ripping open the can' and bringing on some lively discussion.

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The trick isn't finding profitable angles, it's finding ones you will bet through the ups and downs - UB