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  #21  
Old 3rd September 2015, 09:44 AM
FredTheMug FredTheMug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat123
How do bookmakers bet into the tote once betting is closed and the race is off? How do they actually do it?


I imagine that only the corporate that runs the tote can do it after it's closed, which would give their fixed odds business a big advantage. I have heard that the TAB let their most special customer do it as well. I have also heard a story about a phone operator making a mistake and then correcting it while the race was in play.

That's all just unsubstantiated rumours.

One thing I know for sure is that after they close there is a delay while all of the money from the co-mingled pools comes in, which definitely accounts for some of the price movement.
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  #22  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:05 PM
Pat123 Pat123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredTheMug
I imagine that only the corporate that runs the tote can do it after it's closed, which would give their fixed odds business a big advantage. I have heard that the TAB let their most special customer do it as well. I have also heard a story about a phone operator making a mistake and then correcting it while the race was in play.

That's all just unsubstantiated rumours.

One thing I know for sure is that after they close there is a delay while all of the money from the co-mingled pools comes in, which definitely accounts for some of the price movement.


No one, including bookmakers, can bet after tote has closed. I was told:

Bookmakers can process thousands of transactions per second into the tote and therefore by the nature of systems some are accepted 1-2 seconds after jump, but they were delivered before the jump so there's no edge. That's why you see something jump at $3.30 on a Saturday but it shows up $3.10 when the race finishes, it's just the TAB systems catching up.
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  #23  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:11 PM
FredTheMug FredTheMug is offline
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Who's the source Pat?
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  #24  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:12 PM
Pat123 Pat123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredTheMug
Who's the source Pat?


It's just a reply from one of the bookmakers I use. I sent him an email last night. It makes sense, otherwise it'd be serious tote manipulation which is probably illegal? lol I'm still learning.
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  #25  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:18 PM
FredTheMug FredTheMug is offline
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Thanks Pat, good to know. So, plan B?
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  #26  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:21 PM
Pat123 Pat123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredTheMug
Thanks Pat, good to know. So, plan B?


I'll stick with what I currently do for now. Tote is just too unpredictable. I need to work on Aus racing and I'm working on some other trading methods at the moment.
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  #27  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:30 PM
Rinconpaul Rinconpaul is offline
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Might have something to do with this bloke: (courtesy of Wikipedia)

Ranogajec, according to insider accounts,[5] deployed, for his horse racing betting activities, a strategy combined of specific factors: identifying betting opportunities with as high liquidity as possible, meaning betting pools with significant money being bet by the regular gambling public; deploying a "highly sophisticated betting system"; identifying small margins, on which he bets significant amounts of money; and, importantly, closing deals with bookmakers, including industry leader TabCorp, for significant rebates on his bets. The latter has created controversy in the horse betting world, with many punters complaining about the alleged deal.[6] A TabCorp spokesman stated, in response to the media reports, that the corporation "investigated the incidents" and found "no evidence of illegal activity", but reminded the betting public that "the offering of tote-odds betting products by corporate bookmakers has inherent risks of pool manipulation [by large bettors]."[6]

Ranogajec reportedly accounts for 6-8% of Australian bookmaker TabCorp’s $10 billion annual revenue.[7] His betting on Betfair is believed to account for one third of the company's Australian operations.[8]

Ranogajec has gradually organised an extensive network of spotters, analysts, bettors and administrators, directing activities from office space he is allegedly occupying in the Fox Sports building at 235 Pyrmont Street,[9] in Sydney's inner suburb of Pyrmont.[10] It is known that he contracts many companies to provide information and does not employ anyone directly. However indirectly due to his information requirements, to gain the edge, he provides employment to over 300 people in Australia.[8]
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  #28  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:50 PM
Pat123 Pat123 is offline
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What an absolute boss.
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