I am sure that every post on this forum is proffered with true spirit. I also think every poster has a right to post as he or she sees fit. The purpose is to share. Whether the post is correct or not it is a starting point of discussion. That discussion should proceed in a civil manner. You have said that you have several FORMLESS systems that are profitable. I am simply saying that unless shown otherwise they are barrier draw system, colour of silks system, third letter R system or one of the variety of throw a dart systems. All I am asking is show us.

One system that sits nicely is

3-5 DLS
Won @ Track
4 Runs this Prep

Is this what you are after?

Beton, I've just spent some time googling the meaning of form relating to racehorses, and in all cases it refers to what a horse has done in it's prior races. I cannot find any reference that takes into account saddlecloth number for instance as "form" ..... So it appears that most people would understand "form" as how a horse has performed in the past.

Basically your seeking a system with factors that a majority of punters don't relate to performance and hence will not affect the price.

Barny, imagine if you had two lists.
One is the No Form Filter list, the other is the Form Filter list.

On which list would you place - career starts?

Going on your original post you see it as a form filter.
I would have thought how many runs a horse has had is no indicator at all of its past performance.

Barny tends to find factors that have zero bearing and zero influence on todays race.
I've yet to see a single post demonstrating that he is successful.

He is not alone.

[QUOTE=moeee]Barny tends to find factors that have zero bearing and zero influence on todays race.
I've yet to see a single post demonstrating that he is successful.

What was your profit in 2012? and what is the difference between factors today and factors years ago?

Vortech.
My Profit is irrelevant.
I don't claim to have found anything that anyone else before me hasn't , and then make as though I am winning with what appears to me to be irrational and irrelevant.

I made a Profit , and am currently at about 16% Turnover.
But that depends what Pool is being measured.
The bottom Line is I have more Bank than I had at the start of the year,

It is not too hard to determine the Factors that determine the outcome of a Race Vortech.
I don't believe those Factors have changed in 50 years.
Animals need to cross the Line first , and it is up to the Punter to determine whether the animal has what will be needed to win today.

That an animal has had 20 starts prior to today or 120 starts prior to today has absolutely ZERO to do with winning todays Race.
NOR has its sex.
NOR colour.
NOR whether it comes from 1000 kilometres away for this event.

I feel Punters sometimes that aren't doing too well start looking elsewhere for something that simply isn't there , but it was there in the first place , but the Punter simply doesn't have the skill to use and apply it.

Can you tell me the procedure of handicapping? Firstly there is the race classification and distance. For any horse to qualify for the race and nominate, it must have sufficient form to qualify. Then of the horses that qualify there are four basic categories. (1) staying at the same class and distance, (2) staying at the same class but changing in distance, (3) coming down in class and (4) going up in class. The handicapper must even the field up to cater for the different form of each horse. He can only do this by utilizing the formline of each horse. He has to make each formline relevant to this current race. Ultimately he says that TAB#1 has the best formline based on class for this race. FORM PLUS CLASS.

Barny, you are saying look outside the box. I am saying "WHERE" and show that we are not wasting our effort. All those newbies that you campaign for are saying where do we look

Beton, mate, I give up, truly I do. It's not too often I back away from a spirited conversation but you've done me in. I will say that you do have a point because when I was going to reply to Vortech I got stuck at his suggestion of "track winner" which I would not include, so your comment about handicapping has some merit ..... BUT your winning this argument on a technicality and a couple of my systems that have shown the best results in terms of consistency across the board, both in time frames and various venues, will not be able to be properly categorised as you would like. Probs time I wasn't here permanently .....