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  #1  
Old 6th June 2003, 06:57 PM
strawb strawb is offline
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Hi all looks like the tips are starting to come in for the weekend,good punting to you all.I was just wondering if any of you guys/gals with decent databases had given this "sportsman" system ago?Let me know if you need me to post the rules for it.(very slowwww typist)
Cheers Strawb
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  #2  
Old 8th June 2003, 07:05 PM
mesmerised mesmerised is offline
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Strawb
I've been playing around with El Greco for the past couple of years, however I'm still unsure of how to use the results to the best advantage. At the moment I'm (on paper)Dutching the top one, two or three rating horses if they are 2.5 points clear of the rest of the field with a little success. How do you make use of the system?
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  #3  
Old 15th June 2003, 11:42 AM
darkydog2002 darkydog2002 is offline
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MESMERISED.DO YOU THINK YOU COULD SEND ME THE RULES OF EL GRECO AND I WILL SEE IF I CAN MAKE IT VIABLE IF ITS NOT FIRING.
I HAD THE SYSTEM SOME YEARS AGO AND QUITE LIKED IT.UNFORTUNATELY I LOST THE COPY.
IT WAS ONE OF BRIAN BLACKWELLS BETTER EFFORTS.

**************************************************
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  #4  
Old 21st June 2003, 04:18 PM
Napalm Napalm is offline
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Hi Guys,

Would you please post the rules for the rest of mortals?

Regards,
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  #5  
Old 8th July 2003, 08:19 PM
mesmerised mesmerised is offline
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Sorry for the delay in replying I have been off line.
The system, as I apply it, and I have changed some of the rules, is viable. For the past five months I have attained a P.O.T. of 14+%
I don't have the rules set out in a form which I can pass on as there is a Price assessment Chart which is to time consuming, to say the least, to type out.
But basically the system is based on the Zip Form Ratings in Sportsman and was designed, by a reader of PPM, as a rating and pricing method of assessment.
Initial Rules
Check Zip Form rating figures. If more than five horses are rated within two rating points of the top rated horse pass up the race.
Rating Adjustments
(a) add half a point to any horse with (c) or (td). Note Course OR Track and Distance.
(b) half a point (b). Beaten fav last start.
(c) half a point for top Jockey. (Your choice)
(d) One point for claiming apprentice where claim is permited regardless of size of claim.
Deduct
Half a point, after considering scratching, for any horse starting from barrier 15 or higher exept in straight course races Flemington & Victoria Park)
Final Elimination
If more than seven horses within 3.5 points of reassessed horses pass up the race.
Pricing Method
List all horses within 4.5 points from Top Rated Horse (eg. from 57 to 52.5)
Convert the rating margins to pricing
Top Rated Horse is now rated at 80
.5 behind 72
1.0 " 64
1.5 " 54
2.0 " 46
2.5 " 40
3.0 " 32
3.5 " 26
4.0 " 20
4.5 " 16

Now add up all the points of the rated chances and apply to the Prcie Assessment Sheet. PPM may send you a photostat copy of the sheet if you subscribe, they did for me but that was some years ago.
The actual percentage of each race should approximate 100% giving a 'true price' for the race.
OK so without the Price Assessment Chart the above is not worth a crock! But you did ask.

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  #6  
Old 8th July 2003, 08:57 PM
Neil Neil is offline
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Hi,
Like most PPM methods there appear to be numerous flaws.

Here is just one of the flaws:

"The actual percentage of each race should approximate 100% giving a 'true price' for the race."

You cannot get an approximate true price by giving all the other runners in a race 0% chance of winning.

Best of luck.
Neil
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  #7  
Old 8th July 2003, 09:29 PM
La Mer La Mer is offline
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[quote]
On 2003-07-08 21:57, Neil wrote:
Hi,
Like most PPM methods there appear to be numerous flaws.

Here is just one of the flaws:
*******************************
La Mer: I don't think the original rules of El Greco came from the PPM at all, in fact I know they didn't as I have the original Sportsman articles from many years age. PPM only got in on the act sometime later when the republished the rules - not sure if they revised that at all.

When I get time, which probably won't be until after next weekend, I will drag the articles out from the dark hole they currently reside in and post them to this site.
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  #8  
Old 10th July 2003, 08:05 PM
mesmerised mesmerised is offline
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Could it be that, realistically, 4 or 5 horses in a race only have a combined 1 or 2 percent chance of winning? If this is the case then the book would still 'approximate' 100%.
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  #9  
Old 4th August 2003, 04:55 PM
crash crash is offline
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That would mean that the rest of the horses left in the race would have a 98% or 99% chance of winning the race [?]

Gee, I dont know about this system, nor it's refinements or filters. Why not just pick a couple of numbers...say 2nd and 3rd position in the Spotsman ratings. Looking at Rosehill last Saterday and betting on the 5 betable races there, you would have had 3 nice wins.Level/Dutch bet.
Ignoring Melb. due to heavy track, Cheltenham would have saluted 1 out of the 3 betable races.Forget Brisbane as rating the place is impossible.
Would have done ok useing the same system with W/P too [using their odds]. Forget Wizard as they could'nt rate/pick their nose [great stats info though].
I know the above would be up and down over the weeks, but that "pick an intelligent number[s]" system are all about as equaly useful/useless I'd think, regardless of refinement. Problem with mechanicals is their boredom. You end up having a "pick" outside the system [I would anyway] for sure. Thats the "filter" that brings down all systems surely?

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-08-05 06:03 ]
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  #10  
Old 7th August 2003, 08:33 AM
mesmerised mesmerised is offline
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The idea with El Greco is to form a book, and yes, if you take out the horses that can't win the rest of the field must have a 98ish% chance of winning.
Last week was a good day, by using the system I was able to find 7 out of 8 winners. Five of them were over the odds calculated by El Greco. Wish it were like that every week.
The boredom factor is an issue with any mechanical system but tell that to the tortoise when he won.

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