The New Tipping Comp

[Duritz]

OK if you've been following the other thread about this topic you'll have noted that we're trying to work out the details for the next tipping comp. I have come up with an idea for one, and I'll give it a go at running it too. Here's the rules:

-- All Saturday and Public Holiday meetings.
-- Choose between 1 and 10 selections, from any venue in Australia that NSW tab is betting on.
-- Theoretical $1 the win on each selection you choose, declared at NSW tote prices.
-- If you're selection wins, your score goes up by the PROFIT from the selection (ie if it wins and pays $4.50, your score goes up by $3.50), and if it loses, your score goes DOWN by $1.

That's it. Simple, easy. As I said in the other thread, it does have advantages -

1 - You can pick faves or roughies.
2 - The comp doesn't go skewiff is someone bags too big a winner, because you get ten selections if you should want that many to catch them up again.
3 - There's no disadvantage to only picking say 1 horse, because a losing bet registers as a -$1 anyway.
4 - Versatility as to which races you target, completely up to you.
5 - If you have to miss a meeting, it's OK as you're score just remains the same, and as scores aren't constantly increasing then remaining the same is OK.

I should add a sub rule though - which is this:

*** If you miss more than 1 meeting in a month, for that meeting your score goes DOWN by $10, ie you are assumed to have had ten selections and backed ten losers.

We'll start it this Saturday, and assess how it is going at the end of April.

Good luck all, post your tips here if you want to be involved!!!!

Oh yeah, post them by midday on the Saturday, to keep it fair, and if your first race is prior to midday, post them before your first race......

[Real Deal]

I like the idea and will definately be involved. It is exactly the way i like to bet-pick out a few specials around the country on a saturday and only bet on them. Scratchings obviously refunded?

[Sportz]

Yes. Obviously if you get a scratching it would be just counted as a refund or $0.

Here's one thing though. Some people like to put their tips in on Friday and can't update on Saturday after final scratchings are known. If someone does this and only picks one horse which ends up being a scratching, theoretically they haven't had a bet that week. What do we do here?

Good idea about the -$10 by the way Duritz.

[Duritz]

In the case of what Sportz just mentioned, I think the best thing to do is add a second selection, but state that it is an emergency. You could thereotically put as many emergencies as you like. This will stop that problem, because otherwise someone who is leading could put in one selection, who perhaps could ALREADY be scratched, and bypass the no tips rule. I don't think people would actually do that, but just in case.

Otherwise, yes if you only have one selection and neglect to have any emergencies and your selection is scratched, ten big ones goes the negative!!

PS - I am subject to that. I have often had to post on the Friday, so the rule is no advantage to me...

[Duritz]

Yeah so let me know if you want to be in so I can get a good idea of numbers. As I said, it'll start this weekend, which means you can actually start posting now, as acceptances are through. No point posting "before acceptances" as the saying goes.

[Sportz]

I'll have a go.

[zorro]

Duritz,
How long do you intend this comp to run?

[Duritz]

Oh it'll run forever, of course. Until I die. And I'm 28, so.....

Just kidding. We'll see how it's going at the end of April. If it's going well we'll extend it, or euthanase it. First checkpoint is end of April, anyway.

[zorro]

Sounds OK I'm in.

[Random]

count me in

[Chuck]

Oh it'll run forever, of course. Until I die. And I'm 28, so.....

you are a very funnn bugger...i'm in

[Goldcoaster]

count me in

[rabbitz]

yeah me too

[mecurial]

Yep

[kiwi]

Sounds like fun Duritz.Thanks for running it:)

[Duritz]

Oh don't thank me yet, I could spit the dummy after week one!!!

(especially if I am sitting on -$10 after week one!)

[Real Deal]

I'll go first.

Syd-

R2 #6 R5 #7 R6 #8

Melb-

R3 #1

[Duritz]

Great stuff - our first entrant!

I think I'll wait until Sat night when sitting here after the races with a couple of beers, my little girl and me watching the Lions kill Port Adelaide, and I'll tally them then.

Good luck to everyone who participates.

[zorro]

Busy weekend coming up so I'll get in early:
MR4 - 1
MR5 - 2
MR6 - 4
MR7 - 2
MR8 - 8
SR2 - 5
SR4 - 1
SR5 - 8
SR6 - 7
SR7 - 1

[Seeker11]

MR5 No.10 Annie la Vie
SR2 No.5 Glasnost
SR8 No.7 Pantani
BR7 No.12 Sonic Peak

[Chuck]

Sydney:
1-4
2-6
5-9
8-2
9-2

Melbourne:
2-1
6-4

Doomben:
4-1

Morphetville:
2-4

[Svenvlad]

I'll have a go Duritz, if thats all good :)

BR1 - Allegro Spiritoso
BR4 - Any Suggestion
BR7 - Mighty Stronghold
SR1 - Barberton
SR5 - Under The Floor
SR9 - Racer's Success

Thanks for the comp,

Sven

[Heavyweight]

I'll be in it please.

Cheers,

H.

[bl4dez]

SR1. 8
SR2. 4
SR3. 4
SR5. 8
SR7. 1

gold coast
Race1. 5

[Duritz]

Here's mine

melb
4-3
6-1
7-1

syd
6-8
8-10

doom
5-2
6-4

ade
5-6
7-3

bel
3-1


EMERGENCIES

Should any of the above be scratched:

1st em Toowoomba 5-8
2nd em mv 5-3

[Random]

Randwick
Race 1 No 2 Ta Ta Tatania
Race 4 No 15 Accumulate
Race 5 No 4 Replicator
Race 8 No 7 Pantani
Race 9 No 8 Fourofakind
Belmont
Race 2 No 9 Taane Maya
Race 5 No 14 Professional Lady
Doomben
Race 6 No 5 Cuchulainn's Leap
Morphettville
Race 7 No 6 Lemonade Party
Moonee Valley
Race 4 No3 Centashani

Good Luck to all

[MartinFriedman]

..
Unfortunately, this competition only considers winning selections.

As we always select outsiders, and win if our selections only come 2nd or 3rd, we would have no chance in this competition. Therefore we have to decline from entering until such time as the competition allows $1 each way.
Why have you decided on win bets only - surely the idea is to win money.
.
Cheers,
Friedman Family
...

[Goldcoaster]

Syd
R2-6
R3-2
R6-7
R9-4

Melb
R4-1
R5-2
R6-4

Adel
R3-9
R4-5
R5-3

[feather]

SR1-6 PENTELIKON
SR3-3 FORCE APOLLO
SR4-1 EREMEIN
SR9-2 GABFEST

MR2-4 CHARTED
MR4 -1 MANGO DAIQUIRI
MR7-3 HIDDEN STRINGS

BR1-2 SHE’S DECENT

AR7-1 LIONS GATE

PR4-1 POWER MAK

[kiwi]

Duritz do you get a fresh $10 to bet with every saturday, or does the $10 reduce by the number of losses? In effect ten bets ten losses you could be gone from the comp day one.

[SIRPENT]

SR1 NO6 PENTELIKON
SR2 NO4 CHELSEA ROSE
SR3 NO2 WORDS OF MAGIC
SR4 NO1 EREMEIN
SR5 NO8 FASHIONS AFIELD
SR6 NO1 REGAL ROLLER
SR7 NO11 SAVABEEL
SR8 NO2 COUNTY TYRONE
SR9 NO4 STRIKING VICTORY

[Raw Instinct]

SR 3 #4 Chester County
SR 5 #1 Danger Looms
SR 6 #6 Special Harmony
SR 7 #3 Toulouse Lautrec
SR 8 #7 Pantani

MR 5 #10 Annie La Vie

BR 7 #18 Fires of Ireland
BR 8 #9 Strong Suit

[Sportz]

Doom R6-4 Shady Brady
Rand R8-5 Mahtoum
MVal R2-4 Charted
MVal R6-4 Country Lodge
MVal R8-6 Shackled Rose
Morp R5-6 Suzie Mine
Belm R4-3 Ser Grill
Belm R7-6 Modaney
KGra R5-3 Al Khafra
Bend R6-6 Fonteyn Star

[Heavyweight]

Randwick:

Race 1: 8.Valda Merceda
Race 2: 5.Glasnost
Race 4: 1.Eremein
Race 5: 8.Fashions Afield

Moonee Valley:

Race 3: 1.Leveller
Race 5: 3.Tarn Princess
Race 6: 1.Grundy's Crossing
Race 7: 2.Mirranatwa
Race 8: 9.Mangiare

Morphettville:

Race 4: 1.Taos Pleasure

Cheers,

H.

[mecurial]

SRO2 No. 3 Canny Princess
SRO4 No. 2 Magnetism
SRO7 No. 11 Savabeel
SRO9 No. 2 Gabfest
MRO2 No. 4 Charted

[kiwi]

SR1 NO5 LUCIDIA
SR2 NO3 CANNY PRINCESS
SR3 NO3 fORCE APOLLO
SR4 NO2 MAGNETISM
SR5 NO3 UNDER THE FLOOR
SR6 NO1 REGAL ROLLER
SR7 NO4 MUMMIFY
SR8 NO2 COUNTY TYRONE
SR9 NO8 FOUROFAKIND

[TESTAROSSA]

SR 6 (7) Only Words
SR 8 (10) Padfoot Charlie
SR 9 (4) Striking Victory
MR 4 (3) Centashani
MR 7 (1) Joy Of Flight
MR 8 (5) Montserrat
BR 2 (2) Aerosol
BR 6 (4) Shady Brady
AR 5 (3) Not Abandoned
AR 7 (8) Secret Daughter

Cheers.

[Duritz]

In response to those two queries:

Friedman Family, of the Famous Friedman Family Outsiders: Granted your selections will make a profit on an each way basis, but not having an each way component to this comp doesn't mean that your selections aren't worth submitting! Sure if you're selecting roughies then you'll probably have long runs of outs for the win, but that doesn't matter because one forty dollar winner cancels out heaps of them losers!! Submit the tips anyway, starting with next week. I'm sure your selections go better for the win than for the place anyway. Place odds are not great value long term. If you all want to be in, we can start you all off on 0 next Saturday. Go on, you don't need the place bit. Plus, it'd double my workload and when all's said and done win is a good test of how a method is performing.

Kiwi - yes you get a "fresh" ten dollars every week. That is to say, each week you are allowed to outlay a dollar on up to ten selections, regardless of how you've gone the previous week. I should add that you can't carry unused dollars over, nor does not using all $10 mean you get those dollars unused added to your total, if they're unused, they're unused.

Results shortly.

[Duritz]

OK everyone here goes.

I have tallied the results. I THINK I have got them all right, but if I have gotten something wrong (which is a greater certainty than Grand Armee was today) then tell me, otherwise, well miracles do happen.

I should note I am using supertab prices, for consistency because soon the NSW tab is going to be part of supertab.

OK, so on a day when a lot of people went very close, a lot of placegetters but not a huge amount of winners. Still, the tipping was quite good, but it was like Greg Chappell - good tipsters out of luck.

Continuing the trend of the organiser of the comp leading it, I am leading it! However, my lead is paltry and soon to be annihilated by someone with a good winner.

Thanks for participating all, here's the table:

player bets wins collects Profit/loss %POT
Duritz 10 2 10.9 0.9 9%
Sportz 10 3 10.6 0.6 6%
Chuck 8 2 8.2 0.2 2%
Goldcoaster 10 3 9.3 -0.7 -7%
Real Deal 4 1 3.1 -0.9 -23%
sirpent 9 2 6.2 -2.8 -31%
testarossa 10 1 6.9 -3.1 -31%
Seeker11 4 0 0 -4 -100%
bl4dez 6 1 1.9 -4.1 -68%
Svenvlad 6 1 1.7 -4.3 -72%
feather 10 2 5.6 -4.4 -44%
mercurial 5 0 0 -5 -100%
zorro 10 2 4.7 -5.3 -53%
raw instinct 8 0 0 -8 -100%
kiwi 9 0 0 -9 -100%
Random 10 0 0 -10 -100%
Heavyweight 10 0 0 -10 -100%

Hmm that's pretty hard to read, so I've added the spreadsheet with the results here as an attachment.

[Sportz]

Yep. Amazed that I'm in second and surprised that I even made a profit. I reckon I had a shocker! :o

It must have been a hard day for tipping.

[TESTAROSSA]

SR 6 (7) Only Words
SR 8 (10) Padfoot Charlie
SR 9 (4) Striking Victory - 1st, $3.50.
MR 4 (3) Centashani
MR 7 (1) Joy Of Flight
MR 8 (5) Montserrat - 1st, $6.50.
BR 2 (2) Aerosol - 1st, $3.00.
BR 6 (4) Shady Brady
AR 5 (3) Not Abandoned
AR 7 (8) Secret Daughter

Cheers.

Sorry to be a pain Duritz but i had 3 winners which produced $13.00 with NSW Divs.

[Duritz]

LOL yes sorry you did have that.... I don't know how I managed to stuff up not just one of your winners, but two!

Here's the NEW table, with testarossa rightly on top of it, and a link to it as an excel spreadsheet below.

Sorry, it's my first day...

player bets wins collects Profit/loss %POT
testarossa 10 3 13.1 3.1 31%
Duritz 10 2 10.9 0.9 9%
Sportz 10 3 10.6 0.6 6%
Chuck 8 2 8.2 0.2 2%
Goldcoaster 10 3 9.3 -0.7 -7%
Real Deal 4 1 3.1 -0.9 -23%
sirpent 9 2 6.2 -2.8 -31%
Seeker11 4 0 0 -4 -100%
bl4dez 6 1 1.9 -4.1 -68%
Svenvlad 6 1 1.7 -4.3 -72%
feather 10 2 5.6 -4.4 -44%
mercurial 5 0 0 -5 -100%
zorro 10 2 4.7 -5.3 -53%
raw instinct 8 0 0 -8 -100%
kiwi 9 0 0 -9 -100%
Random 10 0 0 -10 -100%
Heavyweight 10 0 0 -10 -100%

[Duritz]

Am still trying to work out the way of working out the leader in this comp, too. Should it be worked out on $$ won or on %POT? Whilst purists who mustn't punt would say the better judge is he/she with the higher %POT, it's $$ in your pocket that count, and it is harder to maintain a high %POT with more selections, so I am thinking why penalise those who don't wimp out by tipping only one pick? Therefore, I am thinking overall $$ profit is the best way to gauge it.

Other thoughts on the matter?

[Chuck]

5 times winnings + POT for that week?

[Chuck]

Top 5 scores would be as follows:

testarossa 86.5
Duritz 63.5
Sportz 59
Chuck 43
Goldcoaster 39.5


just a thought?

[Chuck]

hmmm...having second thoughts. Perhaps it creates too much of a gap?

[Chuck]

BTW i am rather enjoying this good old chat with myself! :D

[Duritz]

Yeah I think that might be unnecessarily complicating things. Really, dollars won is most important. It's not most important if everyone's having different amounts on, but when we're all just having $1 on each selection, then it's the MOULA in the POCKET which counts!

Example:

Person A has had 100 bets, 20 winners, collect 120, for a lovely 20 unit profit.

Person B has had only 10 bets, for 2 winners, collect 13, for a 3 unit profit.

In my book, person A has gone better, however if we used %POT then Person B has gone better, even though person B's profit is very small and able to be eroded with just a couple of losers, whereas Person A could have 20 losers in a row and still not be losing.

That's why I'll go with $$ profit as the criteria for the leaderboard.

[Duritz]

OK all you can get your tips in whenever you like from now. As I stated I'll use overall $$ profit as the determination as to who's winning.

Best of luck!!

PS - I prob won't post the results this week until either late Sunday or early Monday.

[zorro]

MR4 No.2
MR5 No.1
MR6 No.7
MR7 No.2

[mecurial]

MRO1 No. 4 Leveller
MR05 No. 5 Force Apollo
BR07 No.4 Proudly Agro
SRO4 No. 3 No Penalty

[Chuck]

Warwick Farm:
2-1 Court Caughting
4-1 Zingham

Caulfield:
2-1 Loyal Lauren
5-1 Roman Arch
6-1 Don't Tell Tom
7-1 Gallic

Morphetville:
6-1 Honalee

Why yes i do think the handicapper is going to do a good job tomorrow!!!

[Seeker11]

MR2 No.3 Star Peril
MR3 No.1 Bruges
MR5 No.3 Gold Wells
AR3 No.6 OurPerfect World
AR4 No.3 Pommery Princess
AR5 No.4 Golden Gladiator
AR6 No.1 Honalee
BR5 No.1 Tornado Alley

[Sportz]

Warwick Farm:
2-1 Court Caughting
4-1 Zingham

Caulfield:
2-1 Loyal Lauren
5-1 Roman Arch
6-1 Don't Tell Tom
7-1 Gallic

Morphetville:
6-1 Honalee

Why yes i do think the handicapper is going to do a good job tomorrow!!!

But if no.1 wins all the time, then I guess the handicapper hasn't really done a good job because he obviously hasn't given them enough weight. :)

[Random]

doomben race 2 no 2 shilo
race 3 no 1 katsidis
w farm race 9 no 7 legendary man
caulfield race 4 no 8 cunamulla lass
race 5 no 5 force apollo
belmont race 2 no 4 drifter
race 3 no 8 royal minx
race 4 no 3 field commander
race 8 no 12 twice
m'ville race 9 no 5 belle gino

[Svenvlad]

BR1 - Posh touch
BR2 - Shilo
BR8 - Kengrande
SR6 - Cateclipse

[bl4dez]

SYD RACE 9
no.7
ADEL RACE 6
no.4

[Raw Instinct]

MR 7 #7 Lightning Command
BR 3 #2 Rashini
BR 6 #10 Little Punc
BR 7 #2 St. Basil
AR 7 #2 Tingirana
PR 1 #6 Raw Metal
PR 3 #1 Bon Argent
PR 7 #1 True Steel

[SIRPENT]

SR1 NO1 ALL KNOWLEDGE
SR2 NO3 FAMOUS DANE
SR3 NO6 IMPATIENT STAR
SR4 NO2 JACKMAN
SR5 NO5 WATERWISE
SR6 NO4 BROMIDE
SR7 NO8 RADIO SONG
SR8 NO7 ASHKABAR
SR9 NO5 FIRE AT WILL

[Goldcoaster]

SR1-4
SR7-6
SR9-7

MR2-3
MR3-1
MR7-1
MR8-2

BR1-3
BR5-4

AR6-1

[Heavyweight]

Warwick Farm

Race 4: 3.No Penalty
Race 9: 7.Legendary Man


Caulfield:

Race 3: 1.Bruges
Race 5: 3.Gold Wells
Race 6: 7.Barabba Road
Race 7: 1.Gallic
Race 8: 2.Middlemarch


Morphettville:

Race 4: 2.Policia
Race 6: 8.Opononi
Race 7: 3.Merlot Now

[feather]

VR3-2 COS I’M FREE
PR3-3 TANTRA DANCER
MR2-2 BRILLIANT JEWEL
MR8 -2 MIDDLEMARCH
QR1-8 KALINGA EMMA
SR 9-7 LEGENDARY MAN
BR2-2 SHIL0
BR5-1 TORNADO ALLEY
AR5 -4 GOLDEN GLADIATOR
AR6 - 1 HONALEE

[Duritz]

OK here's mine!!!!

Come on Duritz!!!!


BRIS R4 #4
WF R6 #1
TWBA R4 #7
BEL R2 #6
BEL R3 #5
BEL R4 #7
CAU R6 #1


Good luck all

[TESTAROSSA]

SR R7 (7) TEMPLATE
SR R9 (7) LEGENDARY MAN
MR R3 (1) BRUGES
MR R4 (2) FISCAL MADNESS
MR R7 (7) LIGHTNING COMMAND
BR R1 (3) FRISCO AGOGO
BR R2 (2) SHILO
BR R8 (10) JIMMY THE BEAR
AR R6 (1) HONALEE
AR R8 (9) BOUNCING AROUND

[Sportz]

Doom R2-2 Shilo
Doom R5-4 Octanee
Doom R6-11 Pure Octane
Morp R3-4 Ride The Rocket
Morp R6-1 Honalee
Belm R2-4 Drifter
Belm R6-10 No Questions
Hawk R3-3 Abergavenny Angel
Hawk R8-4 Sheerama
Camp R8-2 Many Are Called

[Chuck]

please add: SR07-1 Covet Thee

[kiwi]

Gold Coast

R1 H 8

Syd

R 6 H 8

R 9 H 8

Brisbane

R 6 H 10

R 7 H 2

R8 H 2

Perth

R 1 H1

R 2 H 6

R3 H 7

R8 H 11

[SIRPENT]

Was bored so i worked out the place returns.


-----------------PL/BETS---PL%---AVE DIV---OVERALL RET---PROFIT/LOSS
SIRPENT----------12/18____66_____$2.04______$24.50_______+$6.50
DURITZ-----------10/17____58_____$2.18______$21.80_______+$4.80
ZORRO------------9/14_____64_____$1.78______$16.10_______+$2.10
MECURIAL---------6/8______75_____$1.68______$10.10_______+$2.10
SVENVLAD---------4/10____40_____$2.90______$11.60_______+$1.60
GOLDCOASTER----12/20____60_____$1.66______$20.00_______EVEN
KIWI--------------9/19_____47_____$2.08______$18.80_______-$0.20
CHUCK------------7/16_____43_____$2.05______$14.40_______-$1.60
BL4DEZ------------3/8_____37_____$1.66_______$5.00_______-$3.00
SPORTZ----------11/20____55______$1.51______$16.70_______-$3.30
TESTAROSSA------9/20____45______$1.76______$15.90_______-$4.10
FEATHER----------9/20_____45_____$1.64______$14.80________-$5.20
RAW INSTINCT----4/16_____25_____$1.80_______$7.20________-$8.80
HEVYWEIGHT------6/20_____30_____$1.58______$9.50________-$10.50
RANDOM-----------5/19____26______$1.68______$8.40________-$10.60
SEEKER11---------0/12_____0_______0__________0___________-$12.00

[Chuck]

Was bored so i worked out the place returns.

i wonder why?

[Chuck]

couldn't you have done the win returns on my behalf?

[Sportz]

Yeah, looks suspicious, doesn't it Chuck? :D

I think Sirpent just didn't want to step on Duritz's toes by working out the win part.

Interesting figures there. No surprise to me that I have the lowest ave place div. Too many damn short priced favs. :(

[Duritz]

LOL sorry I have been so slack - there have been very good reasons that I haven't been able to do the results yet though. Am tallying them now, will have them shortly.

(PS - am modyfiying the spreadsheet too, it'll kiss arse!)

[Duritz]

Oops, that was meant to say it'll KICK arse, not KISS arse....

So, I won't bother putting the table up here b/c it looks silly, I'll just post the results as an excel file below. There are four worksheets in the excel file. Here's an explanation of each:

Ranked - Is the total of the two weeks, sorted into order of best to last.
Totals - the totals, unranked
This week - fairly self explanatory
Last week - yep.

We had some better tipping this week, and two people have kind of kicked away!! We only had the one blowout this week (ie no winners tipped). Also, people tended to reach out a bit further into the country to find winners, with people tipping in - and getting winners in - the Gold Coast, Camperdown, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and Hawksbury. I was the only fool to tip one in Toowoomba, which ran second. I also got the shortest priced winner for the week, $1.10 on Supertab, courtesy of a dead heating Amber's Halo.

I'd like thoughts from everyone - I am considering extending the comp to include midweek. Essentially, if you want to put in some tips during the week (any day at all) you just post them and they count to your score. The only day people would be compelled to tip would be Saturday, the other days being bonus days should you wish to utilise them. Of course, it could blow up in your face, too, if you tip heaps of losers.

What do we think?

[Sportz]

Oops, that was meant to say it'll KICK arse, not KISS arse....


I was wondering about that. :D

[Duritz]

Hey Sportz, I just added more to my earlier post, read what I wrote and tell me what you think if you have time?

Thanks.

[Sportz]

Yeah, I guess so, but that could possibly give the people who can't tip midweek a disadvantage??? Then again, we're basing this on profit/loss instead of money won aren't we? So, it should be okay.

[Chuck]

Well, if it is okay i'm going to be the first to do some midweek bets:

Moe:
7-5 Kildonan Road

Quanbeyan:
7-1 Peaks:

Tamworth
3-4 Lady Toy

[Duritz]

Yeah that would be OK. The rules as you just stipulated would be OK too. Is it too late really for April or can we just implement it right away, or starting next week (which would give all contributors a chance to see the changes this weekend). What do you think?

[Sportz]

Ahh sorry guys. I deleted my post. I thought maybe Duritz would think that my idea was too much trouble. :o

[Sportz]

Well, seeing as you seem to think it's okay, here's my idea again:

Everyone to have a minimum of 5 bets and a maximum of 15 bets each week.
You can have any or all of these bets on any day of the week.
You can give tips on any Australian TAB meeting.
Scores to be tallied up at the end of each week.

[Sportz]

You can give tips on any Australian TAB meeting.


When I say that I mean any Australian meeting covered by the TAB of choice. Which one is that, Duritz?

[Duritz]

Well I am taking the dividends from Supertab, however we'll make it any meeting in Australia that NSWtab covers. If there happens to be a winner tipped on a meeting that NSW covers but not SUPERTAB, I'll take the dividend from NSW.

OK well I am going to change the comp in line with what we have been discussing.

Here's what I am going to make the new rules:

1 - You can tip ANY day of the week.
2 - You don't HAVE to tip on a Saturday if you don't want to.
3 - You must put in a minimum of 5 tips a week, maximum 20.
4 - If you neglect to tip for the week, first time you get 5 losers, second time you get 20 losers as your total. (this will ensure people tip, which makes for a healthy comp).
5 - If you neglect to tip 5 horses for the week (ie only do one or two) then the balance of horses untipped are considered losers. (ie if you only tip two horses for the week then you automatically get another three losers)

The other rules remain the same, ie meetings covered by NSW tab etc.

I'll change the spreadsheet so it includes number of horses tipped for the week also.

Sorry Chuck, we aren't going to start it today. This would be blatantly unfair to those who have not logged on. We will start it next Sunday, and the week will run Sunday to Saturday. Still tip for this Saturday of course, but this Saturday won't be included in the weekly tally. The new rules will only come into effect starting Sunday MORNING. That means the old rules still apply for this Saturday.

IMPORTANT: To REAL DEAL and RAW INSTINCT - you MUST tip this Saturday as you missed last Saturday, or else you'll get 10 losers, as per the old rules. I don't want to have to give you 10 losers, so whack something in. Even if you're away from Thursday to Saturday, just tip on Wednesday without knowing who the horses will be. Tip the toppies or something.

As I said, the new rules will start this Sunday, so the bets for the week tally will begin then too. Saturday's bet's WON'T be included in the bets for the week, as the new week starts on Sunday.

I think I have covered everything, but I'll no doubt think of something else the moment I hit Submit Reply.....

I welcome ALL thoughts and suggestions, I am keen to make this a good, flowing, live comp. As it was, there was too much downtime for the comp. Now, it will be a continuous, growing thing. The rules above aren't yet carved in stone (I don't have a stone, nor a carver), so give me all your thoughts, discussion can only lead to the better evolution of this comp.

Cheers.

Duritz.

[Sportz]

Yeah. Pretty good. I'd been thinking of doing something like this, but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't disadvantage those Saturday only punters.

[Duritz]

Actually a thought occurs to me - I hope this won't tread on the toes of your Daily Challenge comp. Tell me if you think it does.

Personally I don't think it does b/c people don't HAVE to tip everyday. Your comp is an absolute tipping orgy, whereas this one offers a choice of heaps or little, so I think they can co-exist, don't you?

Your comp is a good one, but I am not in it b/c I just couldn't do a tip in every race!!! In that respect, my comp will probably get those punters who like me don't want to tip in each race, so b/w yours and mine we might have a good spread.

What do you think?

[Sportz]

It's only on Saturdays anyway, but I'm thinking of forgetting about that competition due to underwhelming lack of interest. :o

[Chuck]

no, please don't pull the plug in THAT one!!!

[Duritz]

Ah I see, I didn't realise it was only a Saturday thing, I thought it was daily. I think with that again the prob is having to tip in so many races.

In that case my comp won't be treading on your comps toes at all, given that your one is only on Sat.

Thanks.

PS - One can be overwhelmed, and one can apparently be underwhelmed, but is one ever merely whelmed?

[Sportz]

One can be overwhelmed, and one can apparently be underwhelmed, but is one ever merely whelmed?

And if you aren't disgruntled, does that mean you are gruntled? :D

[marcus25]

And if you aren't disgruntled, does that mean you are gruntled? :D

Hi!
gruntled = adjective "HUMOROUS" happy or satisfied:

"Although he wasn't actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled."

"whelmed" has actually has no meaning by itself.

Cheers

[marcus25]

And if you aren't disgruntled, does that mean you are gruntled? :D

Hi!
gruntled = adjective "HUMOROUS" happy or satisfied:

"Although he wasn't actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled."

"whelmed" has actually no meaning by itself.

Cheers

[Sportz]

You're kidding. You mean that's actually a word??? :o

[marcus25]

You're kidding. You mean that's actually a word??? :o

I am sure you'll be happy that I am not going to bore you to tears with the origin of it, but rest assured it is.
I'm not sure though, if I felt comfortable using it, I can make myself seem like a dork a lot easier than that.
Cheers

[Sportz]

I am sure you'll be happy that I am not going to bore you to tears with the origin of it

Yeah, I'm pretty gruntled with that.

[Duritz]

LOL

Well, I was disgruntled this afternoon when a horse I backed lost, and was feeling far from whelmed at the time, but now am gruntled too.

[Raw Instinct]

MR 7 #7 Lightning Command
BR 3 #2 Rashini
BR 6 #10 Little Punc
BR 7 #2 St. Basil
AR 7 #2 Tingirana
PR 1 #6 Raw Metal
PR 3 #1 Bon Argent
PR 7 #1 True Steel

Duritz do you mean this tips as far as I know I have tipped each week

[Sportz]

Looks like you got a couple of winners there.

[Real Deal]

Sorry Duritz i am going to have to withdraw from the comp. My internet hours have been severly shortened and i can just not get all the things done i have to. Will be back for a spring comp though!

[Duritz]

No problem Real Deal.

Raw Instinct - sorry, I don't know how I f***ed that up. Wasn't intentional, I am just crap at running things I think!!

Below is the updated table, with you rightfully updated.

[Sportz]

I am just crap at running things I think!!


Join the club. :o

[Chuck]

Rosehill:
2-1 Portland Singa
3-5 Canny Princess
4-2 Aqua D'amore
5-7 Zedaction
6-1 Sir Dex
8-3 Radetzky March

Flemington
1-6 Laura's Charm
3-6 Sky Love
8-4 Jakodae
9-2 Tara's Halls

[Seeker11]

I'm going great guns 12 selection no wins no places and 1 scratching anyway, here goes...

MR1 No.2 Glasnost
MR6 No.12 Command 'n Conquer
MR8 No.10 Off White

SR2 No.1 Portland Singa
SR3 No.2 Pizza
SR8 No.3 Radetsky March

AR4 No.1 Squillani

BR1 No.1 Latin Lover
BR3 No.1 Levante
BR7 No.6 Tornado Alley

[kiwi]

Melbourne Race 5 - 1 Mr. Murphy

Melbourne Race 5 - 4 Barabba Road

Melbourne Race 6 - 2 Show Barry

Melbourne Race 7 - 2 Amtrak

Melbourne Race 8 - 12 Oamaru Storm

Brisbane Race 1 - 11 Mahiman

Brisbane Race 5 - 12 Throng

Brisbane Race 7 - 3 Western Brace

Brisbane Race 9 - 17 Sun Fair

Rosehill Race 8 - 12 Cosmic Rays

[zorro]

MR8 No. 4 Jakodae
MR9 No.4 Montcalm
SR1 No.2 Bahia
SR3 No.5 Canny Princess
SR6 No.2 Havana Wind

[SIRPENT]

SR1 NO2 BAHIA
SR2 NO3 KOSTA NOTHIN
SR3 NO5 CANNY PRINCESS
SR4 NO4 SEA SEARCH
SR5 NO8 SOL MERE
SR6 NO1 SIR DEX
SR7 NO7 FORCE ZULU
SR8 NO6 SECRET LAND

[Heavyweight]

Rosehill

Race 4: 4.Sea Search
Race 8: 1.Words of Magic

Flemington

Race 3: 9.Macca's Mount
Race 8: 7.Perlin
Race 9: 4.Montcalm

Eagle Farm

Race 1: 3.Cognisant
Race 3: 6.So Equal
Race 4: 1.Star Shiraz
Race 6: 6.Champion Star
Race 7: 6.Tornado Alley


Cheers,
H.

[feather]

AR8-5 ELMESSIAH

BR3-7 BIKINI BOTTOM
BR7-6 TORNADO ALLEY

SR1-2 BAHIA
SR2-4 IN FLAMES
SR7-10 I’M A TENOR

PR1-1 LOCK THE VAULT
PR5-2 GREAT NATION

MR5-4 BARABBA ROAD

CR7-6 WICKLOW HILLS

[mecurial]

SR03 No. 5 Canny Princess
SR05 No. 2 Triple Dee
MR06 No. 3 Our Smoking Joe
MR08 No. 4 Jakodae
BR07 No. 6 Tornado Alley
AR03 No. 1 Crevette

[Sportz]

Some horses that I have in my 'horses to follow' list that didn't make it into my Stable Challenge 12. Hopefully that means I've got things covered. :o

ROSE R2-1 Portland Singa
ROSE R2-5 Dane Shakira
FLEM R1-7 Sorenstam
FLEM R2-3 Reannag
FLEM R2-7 Cianara
FLEM R4-6 Sweetness 'N Light
FLEM R6-8 Demerger
FLEM R7-4 Raid The Royals
FLEM R8-4 Jakodae
BELM R8-9 Intowishin

[Duritz]

OK all I hope you read the discussions had on this thread earlier in the week, b/c essentially this is the last day of the tipping comp AS IT IS. Go back and read them if you haven't because as of tomorrow, the rules will have changed, basically so that you can tip any day you wish!!

The scores will continue, so today does count like any other day, but as of tomorrow it'll be a more versatile comp.

One of the rules is to not have more than 20 tips in a week. Try your best to enforce that one yourselves and I won't have anything to worry about.

Thanks all, I reckon that'll make this a great comp.

If you want, I can up the maximum number of selections to 30, would that suit people better? It'd obv. make more work for me, but if there's great support for it I'll do it. Anyone want that?

Here are my tips for today:

ROSE
6-4

FLEM
5-4
8-12

EF
9-13

ADEL
7-11

GCST
7-5

BEL
4-1

TOOW
4-6


I have tipped 8 horses at 7 venues!

Duritz.

[TESTAROSSA]

Rosehill:

R3 (5) Canny Princess
R6 (4) Bush Honey
R7 (10) I'm A Tenor

Flemington:

R4 (6) Sweetness 'N' Light
R6 (8) Demerger
R8 (4) Jakodae

Eagle Farm:

R8 (6) Star Groom
R9 (3) Careful Love

Cheltenham:

R2 (3) Della Leonessa
R5 (6) Relativity

[Sportz]

Duritz,

I think I could have done with that weekly 20 bet maximum to use just on today's races. Keen on quite a few today.

[Raw Instinct]

Flemington

Race 3: #2 Out of Options
Race 6: #7 Homewrecker
Race 7: #16 Songs of Vienna


Cheltenham

Race 6: #12 Idelargo


Eagle Farm

Race 4: #6 Willy Leica
Race 6: #7 Origin Hero

[Duritz]

Would it have helped Sportz - how'd they all go?

OK well I haven't anyone's tips yet, and I am not going to have time unfortuntely until later - have things on today. I'll try to get them up this evening.

Remember everyone, today starts the new week, and the new rules. You can submit tips for today etc etc, so anyone who is unsure, read through what I posted earlier in the week. Any queries, post 'em, if I'm not around to answer perhaps someone else who is, can.

Good luck all, post later.

Duritz.

PS - that place thing sirpent posted last week would've suited me yesterday, of my 8 selections one was a late scratching so of the remaining 7 one came first the other six all ran placings...

[Sportz]

Duritz,

I normally use a mixture of system selections and my own picks for this comp. This week I just decided to leave out the system bets. Well, they did pretty well, especially at the 'minor' meetings but most of them didn't pay very much at all, so no big loss. Would have done a bit better than the selections I posted though.

Rose R4-2 Aqua D'Amore WON
Rose R7-7 Force Zulu UNP
Flem R4-7 Scarlet Scene PLA
Newc R2-2 Smart And Fast WON
Newc R4-9 Top Of The Top WON
Newc R6-3 Silver Duke UNP
Balrt R3-9 Lemrac Lad WON
Ballrt R4-13 Hveger WON
Ballrt R7-8 Whittier Miss WON
Belm R7-4 Star Laser PLA

[Chuck]

Quirindi 6-1 Keepa Moving Dan
Hamilton 9-3 Court on Fire

[Sportz]

Chuck, how come you're so keen to pick horses any day of the week for this comp, but you don't agree with the idea for the Stable comp???

[Paddy]

Chuck, how come you're so keen to pick horses any day of the week for this comp, but you don't agree with the idea for the Stable comp???


:confused:

[Chuck]

i know about 10 times more about metro races than these ones. These are tips from other people i know!!!!

[Duritz]

Well I am going to have a go today, here they are

tat 1-2
scst 7-1
scst 7-5
ham 5-9
ham 7-3
hobart 6-4
mudgee 3-3

[kiwi]

Welll done Duritz a 57% strike rate, excellent going

[Duritz]

yeah ta, not big odds but winners nonetheless.

Will have updated table posted here shortly.

[Duritz]

OK well this Saturday saw some pretty average tipping by EVERYONE, with just one very, very notable exception:

Well done to Raw Instinct, who found within his six selecions the winner of the 7th race at Flemington, Songs of Vienna. As most would know however Songs of Vienna actually crossed the line in second place and had to win the race in the stewards room on protest. For that reason, I am disallowing his victory on Songs of Vienna and the tip will stand as a losing one.

Just kidding! Well done Raw Instinct. What a gruelling twenty minutes that must have been, pacing up and down, gnawing your finger nails to the nub, swigging straight from the scotch bottle, muttering under your breath, "damn jockeys, I'll show them!" until finally, blessedly, they upheld it!

For the rest of us, for shame.... We were hopeless. The only other person who made a profit on the day was Seeker11 by finding Command and Conquer in Melbourne, well done Seeker you weren't hopeless, but the rest of us were. The rest of us did manage to find 17 winners but a lot of shorties were tipped, like the winner of the first in Sydney which was tipped three times, paying $1.40. Would you actually take the $1.40 if betting? Well, it won I suppose anyway.

Here for the perusal is the updated ladder. It now certainly makes for an interesting comp, with Raw about $10 ahead of the second place. I am glad we can tip any day of the week now, get a chance to catch him!

Here it is. I am going to post another table in a few minutes, updated for Sunday's tips, which starts the new week of the comp, in which we can tip on any day. There were only two of us who tipped yesterday, myself and Chuck. If you want to tip any of the days this week, just post at your leisure!

[Duritz]

OK here's the new table below, after yesterday's results. A slight change only since Saturday.

I have also put in two new columns in the "ranked" sheet, s/r and ave div, showing everyone's strike rate and their average dividend, for a little more interest.

Enjoy, and good tipping during the week, I'll update as I go if I get time, or do a wholesale update later in the week.

[Sportz]

I'll try a few today.

Monday April 18
Nowra R5-2 Either Or
Yarra Valley R7-1 Fantabulous
Yarra Valley R8-1 Mint Royal

[Duritz]

Thanks Sportz - I was going to tip three horses also, then completely forgot lol. I would've only had one winner as well, and it was actually the same horse as your winner!

Below is the updated table.

As I said, feel free to tip at will. If there's people tipping every day then this comp will be really fluid and continuous. I see it really going well like that, with people chasing the leader, and the leader unable to sit back on his haunches, as any day someone could pounce and claim leadership!

So, feel free to tip madly. I am going to extend the 20 tip maximum to 30 also, as of say right now, to allow more action. That's what the punt is about - action!!!

[Sportz]

Yeah, I was quite keen on yesterday's racing. I actually bet in 6 races which is about 2 or 3 times what I'd normally have on a Monday. I couldn't really have 6 bets in this comp on a Monday though or I might have none of my 20 bets left come the weekend. So I picked out what I thought were the 3 best. Of course 2 of my other 3 top picks won, at $4.90 & $8.30. They would have been handy. Anyway, I had real money on them, so no worries. :)

[Seeker11]

Just a note to say that work committments are imposing on my time and so I'll only be able to compete in the current Group comp for the time being

[Duritz]

OK no worries Seeker. I'll keep your name there in case you find time to throw some in - only have to find five a week, so give it a crack but if you cannot I understand.

[kiwi]

Trying some new/old longshot ideas.

Ipswich

R 1 H 5 Marikal
R 2 H 12 Special Lyric
R 4 H 2 Craiglea Scene
R 7 H 3 Bay Of Secrets

Murray Bridge

R 1 H 1 Equation
R 2 H 12 Teppanyaki

[feather]

SR1-1 AMELIENBORG
SR2-3 CIMAROSA
SR6-1 ANWAAR
SR7-3 ISLAND SWING
MR5-1 REGAL OAMARU
MR6-9 EDGY AFFAIR
PR2-11 KIM JOY

[Sportz]

Trying some new/old longshot ideas.

Ipswich

R 1 H 5 Marikal
R 2 H 12 Special Lyric
R 4 H 2 Craiglea Scene
R 7 H 3 Bay Of Secrets

Murray Bridge

R 1 H 1 Equation
R 2 H 12 Teppanyaki

Is that 6-2 Bay Of Secrets or 7-3 Admiral Nelson???

[TESTAROSSA]

Wednesday April 20:

Canterbury

R5 (3) Neat Work.
R7 (3) Island Swing.

Sandown

R4 (6) Emergence.
R6 (9) Edgy Affair.

Ipswich

R8 (10) Thorpe.
R9 (4) Snow Prince.

Murray Bridge

R6 (6) Painted Rose.
R7 (2) Lambruk.
R8 (15) In Light.

[Sportz]

Wednesday Apr 20

I've gone a bit crazy. This will probably send me to the bottom of the comp, but what the heck.

IPSW R2-6 Grinnezz
IPSW R2-7 Mates Rates
CANT R4-3 Prince Nimrod
SAND R3-13 Miss Debonair
SAND R5-1 Regal Oamaru
SAND R5-5 Shackled Rose
SAND R6-5 Gibernau
SAND R6-9 Edgy Affair
SAND R7-1 Lamparo
SAND R7-4 Ali Benbara
M.BR R8-14 Goodie Two Shoes
M.BR R8-15 In Light

[Sportz]

Trying some new/old longshot ideas.

Ipswich

R 1 H 5 Marikal
R 2 H 12 Special Lyric
R 4 H 2 Craiglea Scene
R 7 H 3 Bay Of Secrets

Murray Bridge

R 1 H 1 Equation
R 2 H 12 Teppanyaki

WELL DONE!!!

Hey Kiwi, are you going to have a go with Stable Challenge version 2. I don't want it to be just me!!! Even though that's probably the only way I can win. :)

[kiwi]

Is that 6-2 Bay Of Secrets or 7-3 Admiral Nelson???

G'day Spotrz i did it again thanks for spotting it.Cost me plenty in one of the comps last time.

The ammendment is:


Trying some new/old longshot ideas.

Ipswich

R 1 H 5 Marikal
R 2 H 12 Special Lyric
R 4 H 2 Craiglea Scene
R 6 H 2 Bay Of Secrets
R 7 H 3 Admiral Nelson

Murray Bridge

R 1 H 1 Equation
R 2 H 12 Teppanyaki

I have revived one of my long shot systems and if it continues to win will post the selections on here.

Yesterday it scored these:

Three selections and two collects.

Queensland r4 h 11 $17.60 and $3.40

Queensland r7 h 12 $22.70 3rd place

I will join you on the stable challange, still working on some runners that will compete for the next three months.:)

[Sportz]

Hmmm, not sure what that system is, but it seems to work.

[Sportz]

R 6 H 2 Bay Of Secrets
R 7 H 3 Admiral Nelson


Hmmm, lucky I got you to have a look at that!!! ;)

[Sportz]

Testa & Kiwi,

You're both doing brilliantly today. Well done.

[TESTAROSSA]

Not doin to bad yourself Sportz!!!!

[Sportz]

Testa,

I think I made a small profit in the comp. Would have done a bit better if we could have different amounts on our selections. Not complaining though. I'm going to stick to picking the two horses per race like I do with my own betting. Hopefully I'll manage to go forward. Don't think I'll be able to catch you or Kiwi after today though.

These were my actual win bets today:

BRIS R2 - 6 (1unit) 7 (1unit)
MELB R3 - 13 (3units) 1 (1unit)
MELB R5 - 5 (2units) 1 (2units)
MELB R6 - 9 (3units) 5 (1unit)
MELB R7 - 4 (2units) 1 (2units)
ADEL R8 - 14 (1unit) 15 (1unit)

For the comp, I probably should have just picked out the ones that I bet 2 or 3 units on.

[kiwi]

Yep, thanks Sportz.Did you get my email, have a couple of ideas for you if your interested.:)

[Sportz]

Could you try again?

[kiwi]

Does it still begin sportznut67?

[Sportz]

Yep.

[kiwi]

Ok that is what i,m sending.Try this charlieed@xtra.co.nz

[kiwi]

Mackay

R 1 H 7 Tio Rama

R 7 H 10 Pride Of Sequalo

[Sportz]

Thursday Apr 21

WYNG R3-4 Zamurd
WYNG R3-6 Waimea
BEND R3-1 Blue Collar Jack
BEND R3-5 Octrivia
P.LIN R6-1 Mr Iceman
P.LIN R6-8 Winthorpe
BUNB R6-2 Joachimstaler

[Sportz]

Well, any money I might have won yesterday, I think I'm going to give that and some more back today. :(

[kiwi]

Geez i've got 5 wins and seven places from 13 races ot R&S DC and only backed the winner of the first race at Port Lincoln as i didn't feel confident about the rest..:)

[Sportz]

Well done.

My only saving grace has been a few multiple bets today. In R3 at Bendigo and Wyong, I tried boxing the top 4 horses on the unitab ratings in an any2 bet and got a couple of handy collects. Should have actually backed all 4 of them for a win, because in each case the top 4 ratings found the winner, one at $12, the other at $65!!!

[kiwi]

22 DC races gone 9 wins seven places.Mackay R7 No10 is paying plenty have a little 5/10 on it.:)

[Duritz]

G'Day all sorry haven't been around the last few days, had some other committments.

Below is the updated table.

Good to see action on Wednesday with 4 tipsters (I'd have joined you if I could), and well done to the four of you. Kiwi tipped 2 of 6 collecting 21.50, best POT for a day for the comp so far. Testa wasn't far behind with 4 of 9 and a collect of 18.30, also very good tipping combining s/r and POT. Feather was right on the mark tipping 4 of 7, collect 11.60. Feather has the best S/R of any tipster in the comp, and of course the prolific Sportz did well too tipping 4 of 12 for a return of 16.50.

Not so good on Thursday I am afraid, with Sportz giving some of his profit from Wednesday back, and Kiwi tipping just twice for two non-winners. Feather and Testa wisely left it in the account.

Good luck over the weekend all, I'll probably have a tip today, got itchy fingers without any action from the past few days, I'll probably be online and posting during the day too while I do the form for tomorrow if anyone's having a bet.

Cheers.

PS - Is everyone OK with me submitting the table as an excel file like this? If not, I can always post the table here it's just that it gets out of line, and there's more info in the spreadsheet. Is everyone able to access/read/understand it?

[Sportz]

Yeah, I definitely should have stayed out yesterday after doing okay on Wednesday. In future I might just stick to Wednesdays and Saturdays. I think I've got 8 bets left for Saturday. Is that right Duritz?

Why not simply post just a very basic table with only our profit/loss figures, and you can include that file as well for those that want to look at it in more detail.

[Duritz]

Yeah that's a good idea, I'll do that, ta.

Sportz you have 8 bets left. You can check on that at any time by clicking on the "this week" tab at the bottom of the excel spreadsheet. That also tells you how you're going for this week etc.

Here's that simple table as the results stand right at this very second right now.

player Profit/loss
raw instinct $13.6
sirpent $4.8
Duritz $3.8
zorro $1.8
testarossa $0.4
Chuck -$2.0
Goldcoaster -$3.4
mercurial -$3.8
Sportz -$4.1
Seeker11 -$5.4
bl4dez -$5.5
feather -$6.2
kiwi -$8.1
Svenvlad -$8.3
Heavyweight -$10.5
Random -$15.2

[feather]

Friday 22nd

wondonga
r2-10 violet pounds
r4-5 bubbles and brew

canberra
r6-1 bartoss

[kiwi]

Canberra

R.6 No9 Overall Prince

Ballina

R.6 No 5 King Of Spain
r.7 No 4 Impregnable

Gold Coast

R.5 No 11 Lion Lady
R.6 No 7 Crystal Lane

The spreadsheet format is perfect thanks Duritz.

[Duritz]

Yeah I'll have a dip too - just one selection

Bris race 7 # 8

[Duritz]

LOL sorry I think I have Kiwi's disease from Wednesday - that selection is meant to be Wodonga R6#3, NOT Bris 7-8. I have no idea why I did that....

Good luck all.

[Chuck]

Saturday:

Randwick -
4-3 Bazaars

Caulfield -
3-3 Marmottan
4-14 Furaat
5-9 Captain Clipper
6-9 Botero
7-1 Mummify

Cheltenham -
7-4 Alizes

Doomben
4-7 Mameluke

[Duritz]

Updated after todays, here's the short list, then the file below.

Good luck to all tomorrow, (including me).

player Profit/loss
raw instinct $13.6
sirpent $4.8
Duritz $2.8
zorro $1.8
testarossa $0.4
Chuck -$2.0
Goldcoaster -$3.4
mercurial -$3.8
Sportz -$4.1
feather -$4.7
Seeker11 -$5.4
bl4dez -$5.5
Svenvlad -$8.3
kiwi -$9.6
Heavyweight -$10.5
Random -$15.2

[Raw Instinct]

Cheltnham

AR 4 #3 Tingirana
AR 5 #10 Intierra

Caulfield

MR 5 #5 Acetate
MR 6 #7 Lots of Swing
MR 8 #8 Twinciti

Doomben

BR 4 #5 Strong Suit
BR 5 #14 Charnwood Crescent

[zorro]

MR2 No.1 Cocinero
MR5 No.2 Mr Murphy
MR6 No.2 Damigos
MR7 No.1 Mummify
MR8 No.2 Solar Antiquity
AR4 No.1 Far Lane
AR6 No.1 Zankel

Sure hope the handicappers know what they're doing today!

[Goldcoaster]

MR2-1
SR5-3
SR6-10
SR7-2

[SIRPENT]

SR1 NO2 IMPATIENT STAR
SR2 NO5 CANNY PRINCESS
SR3 NO4 ILONGGA MAGIC
SR4 NO1 RED HOT PEPPER
SR5 NO3 NICE SURPRISE
SR6 NO10 CATECLIPSE
SR7 NO9 NO WINE NO SONG
SR8 NO6 ZUMANITY
MR1 NO2 THE BOOT
MR2 NO1 COCINERO
MR3 NO3 MARMOTTAN
MR4 NO4 LOYAL LAUREN
MR5 NO6 BRUGES
MR6 NO11 EL NINO
MR7 NO5 UMBULA
MR8 NO7 SHEEDY'S SHEILA

[feather]

CHELTENHAM
AR8-2 TULUM

RANDWICK
SR2-1 SPIRIT OF TARA
SR4-1 RED HOT PEPPER
SR7-2 RESTLESS WIND


TOOWOOMBA
NR3-4 MILLIMAE
NR7-2 COUNT IVOR

NEWSCATLE
CR8-1 IN THE LOUP

WERRIBEE
VR3-4 CONCEPTS

BELMONT
PR3-2 LEGEND EXPRESS

thanks sportz,

[Sportz]

SR1-2 Impatient Star
SR1-4 Rubinda
SR2-1 Spirit Of Tara
SR2-7 Wonderer
MR3-10 Caller One
MR3-11 Activation
AR7-4 Alizes
AR7-16 Super Sweep

[Sportz]

DOOMBEN
BR8-9 SHILO

BELMONT
PR4-7 PLASTERED


Feather,

Shilo is scratched today. As for Plastered, he may as well be scratched because you'll basically just get your money back. :D

[TESTAROSSA]

Randwick

R1 (4) Rubinda
R3 (1) Wasimah
R4 (8) So Determined.
R6 (8) Grandazz

Caulfield

R3 (10) Caller One
R4 (8) Kalashani Star
R5 (6) Bruges
R8 (8) Twinciti

Doomben

R8 (10) Milady Matty

Cheltenham

R4 (6) Lightning Command
R5 (3) Kylikwong

Cheers.

[Heavyweight]

All at Caulfield:

Race 2: 7.Pinions
Race 3: 6.Solar Secret
Race 4: 3.Medium Swing
Race 5: 2.Mr.Murphy
Race 6: 12.Browneyed Boy
Race 8: 7.Sheedy's Sheila

Cheers,

H.

[kiwi]

DOOMBEN

R8 No4 Appertain
R3 No.2 Maizcay Magic

CAULFIELD

R4 No4 Medium Swing
R7 No7 Perlin

CHELTENHAM

R7 No6 Segments

BELMONT

R3 No8 Marchark
R6 No1 Anywhere There

WERRIBEE

R5 No6 Redadare
R6 No3 Kiltiernan
R9 No1 Northface

[Duritz]

OK punters here are mine for today, Adelaide where I spent most of my time looking, good races there.

Adel
5-3
6-3
7-7
8-7

Bris
3-4
8-4

Syd
4-1

Caul
6-2
8-7


We've all got to tip extra well to catch Raw Instinct, who has a handy lead at this point.

This comp won't end at the end of April mind you, we're only just warming up! At this point I'd think we'll go to the end of May and have a bit of a vote as to whether we end there and start a new one or continue this one. Theoretically, you could continue this one indefinitely, there's actually no reason to end it.

Good luck all. I'll post results tomorrow, with a new table.

[mecurial]

Quickly quickly, first bet goes on Rubina in Race 1 at Randwick. I'll post the others soon.

[Duritz]

lol no worries

[Sportz]

Bet he wishes he'd missed that race.

So do I. :o

[mecurial]

Hmm. Interesting run..

SR04 No. 3 Bazaars
SR05 No. 7 Stylish Bow
SR06 No. 4 Handsome Ransom
SR07 No. 2 Restless Wind
MR05 No. 6 Bruges
BR03 No. 2 Maizcay Magic
BR07 No. 2 Catreign
AR07 No. 4 Alizes
PR03 No. 3 Don't Put Me Down

[kiwi]

Incedibly on th Daily Challange after 4 races i have 4 wins 47 points and 435% POT! XPT (Dave60 is running second)How long can it last.:)

[kiwi]

DOOMBEN

R8 No4 Appertain
R3 No.2 Maizcay Magic

CAULFIELD

R4 No4 Medium Swing
R7 No7 Perlin

CHELTENHAM

R7 No6 Segments

BELMONT

R3 No8 Marchark
R6 No1 Anywhere There

WERRIBEE

R5 No6 Redadare
R6 No3 Kiltiernan
R9 No1 Northface

Did it again race 4 Caulfield

[Sportz]

MR6 NO11 EL NINO


Well done!!!

[Chuck]

Hong Kong:
6-6 Day or Night
7-4 Tiber - Have to go with something else don't you? - Not bad adds for Gem of India though, 1122-1 :D
8-4 Epalo
9-2 Palette Natural
10-6 Bumper to Bumper

[Duritz]

OK well another Saturday over, and the leaderboard has altered greatly!

Yesterday was a day of great contrasts. People like Sirpent tipped brilliantly, astoundingly well, finding 5 winners from 16 at odds of $2.0,$2.10,$5.80,$4.20 and $16.20. Importantly though Sirpent's record could have been even better, with a significant number running seconds and thirds. Sportz tipped very well, finding $14.10 worth of collects from 8 tips. Goldcoaster got two wins from four, Zorro 3 from 7.

And then, there were the contrasts. Most markedly - me, tipping zero from 8 with barely a placing. Chuck was in the doldrums with me, also tipping 0 of 8, our ladder leader Raw Instinct had a forgettable one with 0 of 7 and although he has been replaced as leader he retains second. Heavyweight was also one of the zero brigade, tipping zero of 6.

However, as in religion in punting we are constantly offered the chance to repent, and today we have been offered (praise the Lord) a choice of 8 meetings in six states to repent with. I certainly will be bowing at the alter of the form.

Today of course marks the beginning of the new tipping week. For Seeker11, bl4dez, svenlad and random I have had to assign 5 bets for 5 losers for the week, as I didn't see any tips by you guys. If I missed them (always a possibility) alert me to it and I will rectify the situation.

Below is a simple version of the ladder as it stands right now, and attached is the fuller version.

Good luck today all, I'll be on and off this thread all day while doing form for today and tomorrow if anyone wants to post or tip or comment, and of course - Go Elvis and Armee!

AAh I've just noticed Chucky boy that you've tipped on Honkers today. Have been thinking about that one, and I remember at the beginning we sort of said only the Aussie races. I think we should stick to that, not only b/c not everyone follows overseas racing (making it a disparate contest) but also because the Aussie totes on the GA and Elvis races will be absurd. Sorry mate.

player Profit/loss
sirpent $19.7
raw instinct $6.6
zorro $4.6
Sportz $2.0
Goldcoaster -$1.1
Duritz -$3.2
testarossa -$4.1
mercurial -$8.8
feather -$9.9
Chuck -$10.0
Seeker11 -$10.4
bl4dez -$10.5
kiwi -$11.0
Svenvlad -$13.3
Heavyweight -$16.5
Random -$20.2

[kiwi]

Wagga R.7 H.6 Just A Bloke

[Duritz]

OK here's some tips from me. Got to atone for yesterday.

Wagga
6-12
7-1

Taree
1-1
3-3
6-6

[Raw Instinct]

I must admitt Duritz I was hoping that we would be able to bet on Honkers today had a couple there I liked.

[Duritz]

Yeah I know, I would've tipped there too, I thought Best Gift was a certainty, I think GA is a certainty too, but it's not a level playing field then b/c those who don't do the form for Hong Kong would be at a disadvantage if we all started going up the ladder due to tipping winners there.

[Chuck]

well, you saved me some dosh there Duritz!!!

I would've put in Silent Witness had i known i would ge $1.20!!!

Oh Sure, i hear you all say :lol"

[feather]

MONDAY 25TH

MR2-11 SOJUSTREMEMBERME
NR3-12 RATIONALIZED
NR7-2 WIZARD PRINCESS
VR2-4 BIDGEE BEAUTY
VR5-3 ALTRUIST
AR4-1 VIVONNE BAY
AR5-1 JEUNE’S EDGE
PR1-4 DANISH SEA

[Duritz]

OK here's my tips for today:

Flemington
4-4
5-5
6-3
7-7
9-1

Sydney
6-1

Vic Park
6-9

Bris
8-7

Moe
6-5 (3375 metre flat race, had to have a tip!!)

Good luck all.

[Raw Instinct]

BR 7 #6 Wishart
MR 5 #3 Devastating
MR 6 #5 Accumulate
MR 7 #7 Homewrecker
MR 8 #11 La Vie En Rose

[mecurial]

SR01 No. 1 Chaud Roche
SR06 No. 1 No Penalty
MR04 No. 1 Joy Of Flight
MR08 No. 9 Candy Vale
AR05 No. 1 Juene's Edge
BR01 No. 4 Mr Clang

[TESTAROSSA]

Kensington

R8 (6) Stormhill

Flemington

R2 (5) Sharp Aunty
R6 (5) Accumulate
R8 (13) Centashani

Eagle Farm

R1 (4) Mr Clang
R2 (4) Frisco Agogo
R3 (9) Nova Star
R6 (9) Tipulater

Victoria Park

R6 (7) Lifelong Dream

Belmont

R5 (1) Diffraction
R6 (1) Nullagine

Cheers.

[Sportz]

Monday Apr 25

RAND R2-1 Back 'n Wide
RAND R2-8 Beatmore
FLEM R2-1 Dance At Ascot
FLEM R2-11 Sojustrememberthis
FLEM R3-12 Cianara
FLEM R3-13 Dante's Best
FLEM R4-1 Jot Of Flight
FLEM R4-4 Scarlet Scene
FLEM R6-4 Youths Edge
FLEM R6-5 Accumulate
FLEM R8-9 Candy Vale
GOSF R3-12 Rationalize

[Sportz]

Flemington
4-4
5-5
6-3
7-7
9-1


I assume that's supposed to be 8-1?

[Raw Instinct]

Can I add another please

MR 2 #4 Amazing Trace

[Sportz]

Hmmm, not a good start for me. :(

[Sportz]

Flemington

R2 (5) Sharp Aunty


Well done Testa.

[Sportz]

Flemington
4-4


I thought we had this one. :(

[Duritz]

Yeah so did I Sportz... I had a nice go at that horse. Typifies how I am going at the moment. My last 22 selections on this comp have all gotten beat. I am going through the old lean trot.

Anyway, today Testa took the cake mainly thanks to Sharp Aunty, however he found a couple of other ones too. I was the only mug not to tip a winner. Everyone else actually won on the day except Raw, but he only lost 2.6 units. Well done to the rest of you.

Here's the simple table, below that the link. Pakenham and Goulburn don't excite me terribly for tomorrow, I will spend time studying for Wed, determined to fight out of this pit!!!

Good luck all.


player Profit/loss
raw instinct $11.0
sirpent $4.8
zorro $1.8
Chuck $0.0
Sportz -$0.6
testarossa -$1.3
mercurial -$2.1
Goldcoaster -$3.4
Seeker11 -$5.4
bl4dez -$5.5
feather -$6.5
Svenvlad -$8.3
Heavyweight -$10.5
Random -$15.2
Duritz -$15.8
kiwi -$22.6

[Sportz]

Duritz, I think you must have posted the wrong table or something. Personally, I know I made a profit of about $3 yesterday which should take me to about +$5. As for Sirpent, wasn't he on about $19 or something?

I think you must have left out Saturday's results.

[Duritz]

Yeah you're right. Let me check that.

[Duritz]

OK have rectified that stupid mistake - here's the right table below, followed by the link.

player Profit/loss
sirpent $19.7
Sportz $4.9
zorro $4.6
raw instinct $4.0
testarossa $3.5
Goldcoaster -$1.1
feather -$5.6
mercurial -$7.1
Chuck -$10.0
Seeker11 -$10.4
bl4dez -$10.5
kiwi -$12.0
Svenvlad -$13.3
Heavyweight -$16.5
Duritz -$17.2
Random -$20.2

[Duritz]

Two for me today

Pakenham
4-1
6-6

[kiwi]

Pakenham

R1 H2 Busby Glenn

[mecurial]

CR07 No. 1 Ta Ta Tatiana
MR04 No. 2 Amoroof

[Duritz]

Well that's great. I got a $1.60 thing beat.

[Sportz]

Yep, there are some times when I feel like I'm going so bad I could make Silent Witness lose.

[boxhead]

Listen to you blokes, going alright in my book,besides when down there only one way to go -----up
Cheers

[mecurial]

There is only one reason the horses I picked got up. And that is because I put absolutely NO money on them today. Had I had any denomination on them they would of died in the arse no question.

[Sportz]

Well, good tipping anyway. Surely you couldn't have stopped Ta Ta Tatiana. It absolutely killed them.

[feather]

WEDNESDAY 27TH

XR6-5 PETER’S PICK
AR5-1 REGAL BOOM
SR4-1 SOMETHIN’ LEICAJEM
PR5-3 TESCO’S EMPIRE
BR5-1 KENDRICK LAD

[mecurial]

MR04 No. 2 Steelworker
MR08 No. 2 True Courser
SR02 No. 3 Nyavirezi

[Sportz]

Reckon you'll go close again Mecurial.

[Duritz]

Here's my set of losers for the day.

Sandown
4-2
(normally I would absolutely declare that to be a good thing, but confidence is a bit low right now, better just say it's probably got a chance of finishing better than last...)
5-4
6-2

Ipswich
7-3

Bunbury
3-12

Gawler
5-1
6-4
7-1
7-4

Come on Duritz!! Fight back!!

[Sportz]

Last Wednesday I tipped a horse called Grinnezz in Brisbane for the comp and it did NOTHING. Well, just 7 days later it's come out and won at $15. :(

[Duritz]

Well, it came better than last, but only just. Sorry mercurial, I added about 20 kgs to the horse by tipping it too.

[mecurial]

Ha when they jumped I was ruing not putting some money up for it. Lucky for me. Was terrible in comparison to its last run.

[Duritz]

Yeah... Well, was very keen on Perpugilliam there, price $9 or so, kicked clear, beaten on the line. Racing is so, so peaks and troughs.

[kiwi]

Kiwis Losing Longshots

Geelong
R2 H 15 Roi Soleil


Port MacQuarie

R 1 H 7 Kinda Youthful
R 2 H 1 Desert Dazzler


Hawkesbury

R 2 H 5 Sanah

Townsville

R 1 H 7 Sedante
R 2 H 5 Wok Star
R 3 H2 Vitegic
R 4 H 2 Sir Phoenix
R 5 H 1 Lord Grange
R 6 H 4 Stormy Blue
R7 H 2 Swinging The Blues

[Sportz]

Thursday Apr 28

GEEL R2-11 Molfetta
GEEL R2-16 Sipowicz

[Sportz]

Thursday Apr 28

GEEL R2-11 Molfetta
GEEL R2-16 Sipowicz

Geez, I thought I had this one and he stopped as if shot. I hate that! :(

[feather]

If I am not to late to enter today can I please put in the following, that races in about 45 minutes:-

Townsville
Race 6 - #2 Brunt

[feather]

Friday 29th

R3-1 Sutton King
R7-1 Chief's gems

[kiwi]

Cranbourne

race 5 no7 Serengetti Blaze

race 6 no1 Tortuga ( also like 5 Danzig's Dream)

race 7 no6 Gold Times ( 2 Mr Big & Dawson Road)

race 8 no2 Ancient Urge

[Chuck]

The long road back begins...

Rosehill 7-5 Disguise
Doomben 1-5 Sunlady
Doomben 3-3 Zauberei
Sandown 3-3 Furaat

[Duritz]

The even longer road back for me, begins with -

Rose
5-5

Adel
7-12
8-7

Benalla
5-1
7-1

Doom
7-6

Belmont
2-3
5-1

Gold Coast
4-4

Sandown
5-7
6-6
7-4
8-8

[Raw Instinct]

Morphetville

Race 6: #1 Merlot Now
Race 7: #8 Shablec

Doomben

Race 1: #6 Cha Cha D'Amour
Race 5: #2 Raw Instinct
Race 6: #4 Hit the Road
Race 7: #10 Red Oog

Sandown

Race 4: #2 Sorenstam
Race 6: #1 Great is Great


Rosehill

Race 1: #1 Kincharm
Race 4: #3 Portland Singa

[zorro]

BR4 No.1 Upilio
BR5 No.10 Toulouse Latrec
BR6 No.14 Aqua D'amore
MR4 No.2 Sorenstam
MR6 No.6 Our Quivira
MR8 No.3 Savage Attack

[Goldcoaster]

MR1-3
MR2-1
MR5-8
SR2-3
SR8-2
AR7-1

[Heavyweight]

Rosehill

Race 3: 1.Kosta Nothin'
Race 6: 1.Sea Search
Race 7: 3.King Rex
Race 8: 2.Cateclipse

Sandown-Hillside

Race 1: 3.Activation
Race 3: 4.Miss Debonair
Race 4: 2.Sorenstam
Race 5: 8.Sonic Royal
Race 6: 10.Headland
Race 7: 2.Perlin
Race 8: 7.O'Canarvass

Cheers,

H.

[SIRPENT]

SR1 NO2 THUNDERBIRD HILL
SR2 NO5 VITESSE DANE
SR3 NO1 BARBERTON
SR4 NO4 BUSH HONEY
SR5 NO3 OUR APACHE
SR6 NO6 SUVA
SR7 NO9 NEAT WORK
SR8 NO7 THE MAN

MR1 NO3 ACTIVATION
MR2 NO7 LANCET
MR3 NO5 JAYJAYE
MR4 NO1 GLASNOST
MR5 NO8 SONIC ROYAL
MR6 NO6 OUR QUIVIRA
MR7 NO2 PERLIN
MR8 NO12 ASSAFA

[feather]

BENALLA
R2-9 TRIPOLI
R3-12 MT GEORGIA GIRL
R8-2 PASS THE PLATE

GOLD COAST
R3-4 STAND YOUR GROUND
R5-3 FELINE ARTISTRY

KEMLA GRANGE
R7-1 ALLWORTHY

[TESTAROSSA]

Rosehill

R2 (1) Pizza
R4 (1) Zingam
R5 (3) Our Apache
R7 (10) King's Valour

Sandown

R1 (3) Activation
R3 (3) Furaat
R5 (6) Ali Benbara
R7 (2) Perlin

Doomben

R7 (7) St Basil
R8 (6) Save Me Some

Morphettville

R3 (1) Tonlyn Spirit
R7 (12) Gee I Jane

Cheers.

[mecurial]

SR02 No. 3 Anwaar
SR08 No. 7 The Man
Jeez I just saw Cha Cha D'amour won that was a great tip Raw Instinct.
BR04 No. 2 Foolish
BR05 No. 10 Toulouse Lautrec
BR06 No. 17 Rich Megadale
BR07 No. 9 Impaler
MR05 No. 8 Sonic Royal
MR06 No. 1 Great is Great
MR08 No. 1 Broadband
AR07 No. 1 Super Elegant

[Sportz]

Saturday Apr 30

DOOM R3-6 Zauberai
DOOM R6-6 Garth
DOOM R6-18 Aqua D'Amore
ROSE R7-7 Hipster Doofus
ROSE R7-9 Neat Work
SAND R4-2 Sorenstam
SAND R6-2 Foreplay
SAND R6-6 Our Quivira
MORP R3-7 Iguana
MORP R3-8 Whipasnapa
MORP R5-3 Identifiable
MORP R5-11 Cashkalani
BELM R4-4 Great Nation
GCST R5-3 Feline Artistry
KGRA R3-3 Bentley Biscuit
KGRA R5-2 Shines

[Sportz]

Jeez I just saw Cha Cha D'amour won that was a great tip Raw Instinct.


Well done Raw! A nice profit after the first 2 races. Anything else is a bonus. A great position to be in.

[Raw Instinct]

Thanks guys good start to the day with both it and Kincharm getting up

[Chuck]

KGRA R3-3 Bentley Biscuit

what a horse this will turn out to be...winner by 8 LENGTHS in its first start!!!!

[Sportz]

Mammoth 30 cents profit for my dollar!!! :D

[Sportz]

Raw Instinct had a great day's tipping yesterday.

[Raw Instinct]

Thanks Sportz I actually couldn't believe the price that Cha Cha D'Amour went out at it wasn't a very strong field I felt and he has shown some ability although usually he runs on just enough to keep you interested looked asthough he would get a pretty good run in transit and in the ned won fairly easily if only it could happen like that all the time.

[Chuck]

i just realized theres a 5 tip minimum, so here goes:

Narromine 7-1 Kelly Road
S Coast 6-3 What a Guy
Horsham 7-1 Fun at Last

I know we're not allowed Japan races, so this is just for fun:
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva
11-12 Makybe Diva

[Chuck]

1 win covers my 3 losses, so not bad for 30 seconds work!!! :D

[Raw Instinct]

BR 3 #5 Rashini
BR 6 #4 Uncle Shamos

[feather]

doomben-r2-2 hanalei bay
werribee-r2-3 earthsea
canterbury-r5-1 diavolo
moree-r4-4 sirenese

[Raw Instinct]

BR 3 #5 Rashini
BR 6 #4 Uncle Shamos
Just wondering if I can change my pick in brisbane race 6 to #5 Clay Shaker

[Sportz]

Just wondering if I can change my pick in brisbane race 6 to #5 Clay Shaker

Obviously changing due to the weather but you didn't go far enough. It must have been getting pretty damn boggy by that stage if Top Marc won. He's an absolute swimmer and he wouldn't have got near that field on a dry track.

[Raw Instinct]

It was a dead track but it started to come down hard about 2 or 3 minutes before the race so at worst you still would have thought it was only a dead track considering they were saying all day long that it was on the better side of dead. That Top Marc is a very underrated horse not saying I thought he could win today because I wouldn't have thought he could have unless it was heavy over 1000 metres. He has been pretty damn consistent his last couple of preps and not always on wet tracks he is just real good on wet tracks.

[Duritz]

Sorry I ain't been updating guys, there's been HEAPS of stuff going on in my normal life, which has meant I haven't been able to devote much time to actually doing the form or playing on this site!! All the stuff going on has been horse racing related, and all of it really good, and while I can't reveal more at this point I'll have some interesting news for you all soon regarding a certiain website, but in the meantime I have had no spare time. I'll update it tomorrow at some point.

Duritz.

[Raw Instinct]

All cool Durtiz you have done a great job it takes alot of time just to run one of these things I have a hard enough time trying to keep up with all the comps I am in.

[Duritz]

OK I am going to have a dip today, I'll update the site either tonight or tomorrow morning, with today's results in there. This is kind of an interesting way to do it, it'll be a bit of a surprise to see how everyone's going!! (Well, it won't be a surprise how I am going - crap!!)

[Duritz]

OK I am going to have a dip today, I'll update the site either tonight or tomorrow morning, with today's results in there. This is kind of an interesting way to do it, it'll be a bit of a surprise to see how everyone's going!! (Well, it won't be a surprise how I am going - crap!!)

Here goes:

WBL
3-2
5-1
6-3
8-10

Kempsey
4-4
7-4
8-5

Launc.
7-1

WFarm
1-2
3-2

Bunbury
6-5