New Betfair product

[partypooper]

I'm a bit perplexed at this new "Fairprice Product" I mean why would be bet at best tote metro, when we can already bet Best Tote/SP?, and why would we bet Best tote Country capped at Supertab+30% when we can already bet BEST TOTE ALL GALLOPS 7 days a week without restrictions (Centrebet for one)

And why would we bet place only capped at +3% when we can already bet for the place: BEST TOTE???

I'm puzzled, not to mention we can also avail all of the above and have surcharge free CC deposits..!!

As far as Betfair prices (overall is concerned) of course yes they beat each individual tote, but when its BF-V- Best Tote/SP, I've found very little in it.

I'm not a massive backer (individual bets) but I place a lot of bets, my max individual bet is usually $200, and have found many times impossible to get matched with BF,

too haphassard for me, I need to know my bet is ON.

Am I a lone winger, or does anyone else agree!

[TWOBETS]

Crikey John, your spelling is worse than Baggy's. It's Betfew.

[thorns]

Agree with you party, seems an odd option when as you say you can get better than that already with other bookies, and even BF prices themselves. It looks as though its a deal run with Sports Alive, much like (not sure if its still there) the option to bet into the Tasmanian tote through BF. I guess its just another option for if you are a BF user and can't get matched or want to place a bigger bet and be guarenteed of getting it matched, you can do it all through BF without having to log onto different sites, and still get reasonable odds.

[lomaca]

Agree with you party, seems an odd option when as you say you can get better than that already with other bookiesIt's not at all odd thorns, just a good marketing move.
First they already have your account so you don't have to go through the 100 points rigmarole.

You may think that a serious punter would have several accounts already, but most have just a TAB and Betfair.

Also you have to think of the convenience of using one betting site, how many times did you miss out while checking prices on three or four different screens?

I haven't used betfew for at least the last six months because I couldn't get matched for the amount I wanted but with this, I might give it a try.

Cheers

[partypooper]

Well, for Metro I guess its not too bad, but the thing is Top Fluc./Best Tote is readily available some days and Best tote/SP on others, I have those on screen ready to bet, so I don't find it a problem.

As I've told BF, what we want is Best Fluc/Tote all races 7 days, win, EW, or especially the place....(.i.e 1/4 odds when its Top fluc) and also CC deposits with no surcharge.

[stugots]

not looking to defend betfair & off subject a bit but a couple of you have mentioned not being able to get matched for stake you wanted using betfair - could i ask what sort of amounts you are talking about as that is not my experience having used betfair for an extended period now

the 'overs' obtained in comparison to my local tote (unitab) for me mean its a no brainer to be using betfair - my actual figures for last 3 months in $1 units -

betfair win divs $476
unitab win divs $390
overs obtained $86 - 22%

now i do have to work to get the best price & many times dont & about 1 in 4-5 bets my odds are less than the tote pays, but in the long run it pays.

so i am interested if any of you are obtaining greater than 20% over tote prices using any of the bookmakers you mention?

[michaelg]

Stugots, your Betfair win divvies totals $476 - I presume this does not include their 5% commission?

If this is the case, then by my calcs Betfair's advantage over the TAB reduces to from 22% to 15.9%, which one would more or less expect after the TAB's 16% take-out. Still, 15.9% advantage is not bad, particularly if one's turnover can reduce Betfairs commission.

However I suppose its not inconceivable that some bookies who offer generous features as outlined by Party might match, and in some cases even be higher than Betfair's prices.

[partypooper]

G'day Stugots, youre right BF V individual tote will usually be in front, % really depends on the price range though doesn't it?

But what I was saying is BF-V- BEST TOTE= different story. I'm not shopping for prices there, its done for me, say my nag today is at Belmont, can't get set at BF so back it best tote/sp on Spostsbet, not difficult no rocket science. Why would I back Fairprice @ best tote when I can back it Best Tote/SP

I've had several cases today where I wanted a modest $100 place bet when it reached a particular price, there was $15 available once and $36 another, they changed later, but too late, price had gone then.

[lomaca]

not looking to defend betfair & off subject a bit but a couple of you have mentioned not being able to get matched for stake you wanted using betfair - could i ask what sort of amounts you are talking about as that is not my experience having used betfair for an extended period now
Hi stugots,
my standard bet which I do not deviate from is $200.00/ race.
It could be and mostly is for win , sometimes each way or very rarely place only.

I only bet in the price range of $5.00 and over, usually in the teens and twenties.

I have no problem with Betfair prices, but so far I have never had a full match for anything above $10.00. On weekdays it's even difficult to get matched for the full amount under $10.

I'd love to bet on Betfair because the prices are much better, but by the time I have to muck about between BF and the TAB, some times I miss the race.

With the five bookies I used to bet, two asked me to stop and the other three put on restrictions to a very low level.
You do not have to win millions to be restricted either, just be consistent in winning week in week out.

Have not bothered with some betting sites that PartyP was mentioning here because in my price range the TABs are better anyway.
Bookies are good or better than the TAB at the short end of the market, no doubt about it.

But check out prices of a 20/1 shot on the TAB and you'd be lucky to get 12/1 from the man.

Good luck

[partypooper]

Lomaca, just a quick word there, of course if you're betting at the higher end of the market the tote is better, but surely BEST tote is better still?

I.E. regardless of price, the best of Supertab, Unitab, NSW or SP has to be better than betting on any individual TAB??

[Mark]

I'm with you party, but I'll take it a few steps further. Why do they have 90% of the utter rubbish that they offer? All it does is slow the site down.

The answer of course is sucker money. Get'em hooked and fleece away.

[stugots]

Stugots, your Betfair win divvies totals $476 - I presume this does not include their 5% commission?

If this is the case, then by my calcs Betfair's advantage over the TAB reduces to from 22% to 15.9%, which one would more or less expect after the TAB's 16% take-out. Still, 15.9% advantage is not bad, particularly if one's turnover can reduce Betfairs commission.

However I suppose its not inconceivable that some bookies who offer generous features as outlined by Party might match, and in some cases even be higher than Betfair's prices.

Micheal, the betfair figure quoted in net of commission, so 22% greater than the tabs after deducting commission.


lomaca, appears we approx bet in the same price range - $5-$20 - & i can appreciate that yes getting the full $200 matched on a $20 shot can be difficult

interesting replies & guess the reality is that betfair is maturing & will take sometime to become the rounded product many desire

[michaelg]

Stugots, the higher price ranges on Betfair can easily be double, and sometimes treble that of the TAB, as I often noticed when I used to lay outsiders for a couple of months.

So a 22% Betfair net advantage over the TAB in the $5 to $20 price range is surprising.

Because your results come from a relatively extensive period of three months, one could easily assume that selecting every horse in the $5 to $20 TAB price range, by betting them on Betfair would produce a profit of a few percentage points.

As a matter of interest, I used to back at level stakes every horse in the Betfair price range of $7 to $20 and showed a profit over a short period of time. I seem to think I did this with fields of 11 or more, but I can't be certain. So if a winner paid more than $20 I most likely missed it. However, I've seen horses under $20 in the TAB market that paid at least $40 on Betfair. I might have a look at TAB $5 to $20 price range.

[stugots]

Michael, i find the real juice comes from those paying around $7-$12 on the tab as I regularly back them at >$20 on bf, but got to be in front of the pc for at least 10 minutes before the off, which often makes a day job an inconvenience:)

[crocware]

With the five bookies I used to bet, two asked me to stop and the other three put on restrictions to a very low level.
You do not have to win millions to be restricted either, just be consistent in winning week in week out.
Iomaca, I guess you can always go to the track. It's not difficult to get better than the "best fluc" with bookies off the rails. All anonymous and no "restrictions" on your 'cash" account. Of course your limited to the maximum course wagers, but still that should be plenty. And yes you have to leave the house :(

Just out of interest was Lux one of the bookies that restricted you? I was under the impression they don't easily limit, unlike ias, sportsbet, sportingbet, and centrebet. I've become a bit of fan of Lux's best of the best (best fluc / best tote) lately. Of course it's only good for Saturday Sydney and Melbourne, but it is a start.

When I saw BF's new product I got excited, for about 5 seconds, way too complicated - multi tiers, caps here, caps there, blah blah blah... Best tote has been around forever, they're a bit late. And I have to agree with you partypooper that best tote/sp is a worthy product, when best of the best is not available. And on top of that with Unitab throwing down the gauntlet by lowering their commissions on selected races to almost 0%, best tote can become even more attractive. I just wish Unitab would advertise what meetings and races are going to have 0% commission in advance.

Of course if you cannot get to the track, and have the time to sit in from of the PC all day, BF is superior for the over $5 market - there's no question. The real question is will this situation last?

The only certainty in this game is change.

[lomaca]

Iomaca, I guess you can always go to the track. It's not difficult to get better than the "best fluc" with bookies off the rails.
True, I'm a member at Caulfield and Flemington, but I hate the suit and tie stuff, but when we go I have to take the missus and then it's a day out with mates and drinks, not a good mix for punting.


All anonymous and no "restrictions" on your 'cash" account.
Don't know about "anonymous" the railmen have good memories!


Just out of interest was Lux one of the bookies that restricted you? I was under the impression they don't easily limit, unlike ias, sportsbet, sportingbet, and centrebet. I've become a bit of fan of Lux's best of the best (best fluc / best tote) lately. Of course it's only good for Saturday Sydney and Melbourne, but it is a start.
NO, they came later on the market I think, by then I was content with Supertab and the occasional Betfew bets.

By the by, if some people here think that one has to win thousands to get either the boot or be restricted, they are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Believe me, you only have to clear a few hundred a week, (and thk. G. I do a b..y lot better that that) BUT consistently!!! and you will find out how friendly your bookie is?

I don't blame them, they are in the business to make money, and as one who I know personally said to me: "I'm not the dole office, but if I take on the winning punters all the time, that's where I end up"


When I saw BF's new product I got excited, for about 5 seconds, way too complicated - multi tiers, caps here, caps there, blah blah blah...
You are right, now that I had time to absorb the gist of it, it indeed looks a bit more complicated than it need be.
Still I might give it a go and see how it turns out.


Of course if you cannot get to the track, and have the time to sit in from of the PC all day, BF is superior for the over $5 market - there's no question. The real question is will this situation last?
The only certainty in this game is change.I don't sit in front of the comp. all day, believe it or not, I still turn up at the office Monday and Tuesday mornings for a few hours, both to placate the wife who thinks that a man has to have an "hones" job, not that she makes any distinction where the money came from when spending, and because I'm a partner in the business and who knows, there is always the threat of a long sustained losing streak ahead!
Hasn't happened for the last ten or so years, but in this game you just never know!

I have no problem with prices on BF but not being able to get matched annoys me, on the other hand who is silly enough to risk a four grand payout on a 20/1 shot?
And I don't see any way that it would change. The Aust. market is just too small.

Good luck.

[crocware]

True, I'm a member at Caulfield and Flemington, but I hate the suit and tie stuff, but when we go I have to take the missus and then it's a day out with mates and drinks, not a good mix for punting.
Couldn't agree more. The missus, grog and punting will never mix!

Don't know about "anonymous" the railmen have good memories!
Yeah but they are still obliged to take bets to lose the offrails course limit.

I have no problem with prices on BF but not being able to get matched annoys me, on the other hand who is silly enough to risk a four grand payout on a 20/1 shot?
And I don't see any way that it would change. The Aust. market is just too small.
I like betting in Perth and Adelaide, try getting on anything over $20 or $30 on BF... Ridiculous. Depending on the price you either settle for Top Fluc or Best Tote somewhere else.

[partypooper]

well, as I said a long time ago, for the serious bettor, Betfair (kinda like Typhoon) is a fizzer! BUT gotta admit for the PPM (Partypoopers Plum Movers) and the 3rd letter "R" its the way to go hahahahah!

[stugots]

cant agree with that party, but i guess at the end of the day we all strive to find what works for us & once we do if it aint broke, dont fix it:)

[Mark]

If you want to get on BF for good money, the UK is the place to bet.

The radio keeps playing Starspangledbanner getting beat by a 100/1 shot. I laid it at $314 to payout $10,000.........and it was one of my best results for the race.