Take screenshots of Betfair bet placement

[Rinconpaul]

I just placed a $5k liability SP Lay bet on Kilmore 2. The screen showed the bet had been placed, my account was debited $5k at the time of bet. The horse lost and no bet was recorded and liability refunded. If you place a SP Lay liability bet and you receive confirmation that the bet has been accepted, does that NOT mean it's been accepted? They claim the bet lapsed.

Currently have raised a dispute with them but wish I had taken a screenshot of the bet and will do so from now on. Over em!!

[Rinconpaul]

Answered my own question. If the dividend assigned to a SP bet is 1.01 or 1000 then the bet will lapse. Considering there was $25k plus in the pool and my dividend payout at 1000 SP is $5, you'd think they'd pay?
No to that one. I would've been better off having a $1k bet.

[Rinconpaul]

Speaking off screenshots, with Betfair now not showing the Lay, SP price history after a race has been completed of the non place getters, how amongst other details does a Lay bettor find out what the SP and Lay prices were for a race in the instance that they want to dispute a dividend?

In this instance I did have a screenshot of the final prices at the Close, just not the bet. There is something fundamentally wrong with the lack of transparency with this latest upgrade/downgrade!.

[Chrome Prince]

You have to wait until the evening and then download the prices in csv format from http://www.betfairpromo.com/betfairsp/prices/
This gives all the prices for all runners.
Did you set a price cutoff and it was over the price, otherwise I can't think of why it would not have been matched.

[Chrome Prince]

https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/results.html
This also gives all the win and place Sp's for Aussie races, but cuts off late at night for UK prices.

[Lord Greystoke]

Incredibly helpful. Thanks bud.

LG

[Rinconpaul]

https://promo.betfair.com/betfairsp/results.html
This also gives all the win and place Sp's for Aussie races, but cuts off late at night for UK prices.

Useful info CP, however the above website is only Gallops, no Trots. The other site is dated current day but results show previous day. So if I want to look up the SP prices for Kilmore R2, I'll have to wait till sometime today.

Still annoying to say the least, fortunately I've found away around it, not for publication?? I never had a limit on my SP bet but they say it had a SP price of 1000, therefore refer to fine print:

"Will there be unmatched SP bets if the money isn’t there?

In theory, there could be unmatched SP bets. We don’t actually guarantee a match. But this would only happen if the price is 1.01 or 1000 – the two extremes of our SP. If 1.01 were the final SP, then some backers might be unmatched. If 1000 were the final SP, then some layers will be unmatched. However, we expect this to be very rare"

Looks like I'm very rare....lol

[Chrome Prince]

My Name Is Earl ( 5 ) 3.9

Charliesbaby ( 10 ) 37.75

Patch Pepperell ( 3 ) 17.5

Poetsnpirates ( 9 ) 750.78

Nulnvoid ( 1 ) 5

Atego Caviar ( 2 ) 19.95

Strap Star ( 6 ) 1000

Pride Of Sundon ( 7 ) 2.59

Herecomeskayla ( 8 ) 202.7

Maccas Gone Kracas ( 4 ) Scratched

[Rinconpaul]

Cheers for that CP. A hot night here, couldn't sleep so thought, might as well update the stats. Betfair's official response was:

"Please be advised that we can never guarantee a SP bet will be matched in the market"

Reassuring hey!

[tedbluegum]

Hi All
I have been pursuing with Betfair as to where I go to find results of lay betting immediately after a race.
Guess what?
I was told to go to a sight where they publish results which will be upgraded on a fortnightly basis. Very helpful?
Sounds like we are getting mixed information out of Betfair?
I have questioned with them, seeing they are not doing an immediate lay betting result as in the past, whether they are considering quitting lay betting. No answer yet despite 2 requests to answer my direct question.

Regards
Ted

[Rinconpaul]

Hi All
I have questioned with them, seeing they are not doing an immediate lay betting result as in the past, whether they are considering quitting lay betting. No answer yet despite 2 requests to answer my direct question.

Regards
Ted

I think you'll see them pushing fixed odds Backing and run the exchange into the ground! Start looking to diversify or consider using a bot to Dutch Back the field, leaving out your Lay selection. They're certainly on a campaign to upset as many Lay bettors as possible. I put it down to the rise and rise of the online bookies.

[stugots]

https://racing.au.betfair.com/#!/betting/racing/30-01-2014/harness/kilmore/race-2/237183489/win

[Chrome Prince]

I certainly don't think they are cancelling lay betting. It wouldn't make sense.
People would leave in droves, as the prices would plunge for backing.
The fixed odds is supposed to be an attraction for those who don't understand the concept of the exchange to get them to the site and hopefully investigate further, those that don't, it's a free revenue stream that otherwise wouldn't exist.

[Rinconpaul]

I certainly don't think they are cancelling lay betting. It wouldn't make sense.
People would leave in droves, as the prices would plunge for backing.
The fixed odds is supposed to be an attraction for those who don't understand the concept of the exchange to get them to the site and hopefully investigate further, those that don't, it's a free revenue stream that otherwise wouldn't exist.

I hope you're right CP as I make a living Laying and I'm not looking forward to Laying the price of Bitcoins, let me tell ya'...lol

However in this age of divides, what "wouldn't make sense" for one side of an argument, "makes perfect sense" for the other party. Just look at Holden, SPC Ardmona etc??

[Chrome Prince]

True enough RP :(
That will kill me and almost all my action if there is no decent lay market, dutch backing the field leaving one out, won't be the same, the market percentages will kill that.

[Rinconpaul]

True enough RP :(
That will kill me and almost all my action if there is no decent lay market, dutch backing the field leaving one out, won't be the same, the market percentages will kill that.

Do you want me to send you some info on Bitcoin's then?? ....just asking...lol

[stugots]

I think you'll see them pushing fixed odds Backing and run the exchange into the ground! Start looking to diversify or consider using a bot to Dutch Back the field, leaving out your Lay selection. They're certainly on a campaign to upset as many Lay bettors as possible. I put it down to the rise and rise of the online bookies.


How so?

[Rinconpaul]

How so?

Coz, when your a hands on Lay bettor not relying on Gruss or any Bot to do the thinking for you, you need to be able to look at the Betfair page (former), instead of multiple screens now, to assess the info you need, so you can react quickly and place a bet!

[stugots]

wow, if that was meant to impress, well lets just say it doesnt...

[Rinconpaul]

wow, if that was meant to impress, well lets just say it doesnt...

Sorry Stugots I had to race out, storm coming through. The point I was making by showing the bet slip, is that I'm not playing around with toy money here. I'm risking $8k to make $1k. If you're a heavy hitter big time bettor, then good luck to you, but to me it's not an insignificant amount. It's a serious financial business and I don't need some betfair employee with a degree in software development under his arm, probably never risked more than $5 on a Melbourne Cup bet, to decide that us punters need a change! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
See the attachment, to try and demonstrate the downside of their new changes. Don't ask me how I'm still viewing the old format screen though??

[The Ocho]

That new Betfair results page is awful. How are you supposed to look at past results and work stuff out? Why would they change it? FFS!!!

[tedbluegum]

Hi
At last I received a reply to my question to BF regarding lay betting.

here it is lol

"No, Betfair has no intention of closing lay betting in the near future"

I have now questioned will it cease long term .. be the same reply I reckon.

I had also asked as to where do I find past results of lay prices. Despite a direct question they directed me to the results page which I understand does not contain lay prices. It did in the past.

Maybe the BF rep answering my query doesn't know?
I have now asked if Betfair does or doesn't publish lay prices. I bet they are getting sick of me..lol

Regards
Ted

[aussielongboat]

how can and why would BF cancel lay betting. they are an exchange of opinions between bettors and layers.

They cancel layers and they cancel their business.

[aussielongboat]

I just placed a $5k liability SP Lay bet on Kilmore 2. The screen showed the bet had been placed, my account was debited $5k at the time of bet. The horse lost and no bet was recorded and liability refunded. If you place a SP Lay liability bet and you receive confirmation that the bet has been accepted, does that NOT mean it's been accepted? They claim the bet lapsed.

Currently have raised a dispute with them but wish I had taken a screensh ot of the bet and will do so from now on. Over em!!

yes - i have had something familiar happen to me.
i thought it was just me.

That's now added to the reasons why i got so angry when p123 came on here made some excuse to introduce himself and then and said he was laying '000's of $ and never a mention of problems with being set.

In one race i think he said he layed 600+ when the whole market was only 2000 in total.

i have it is a big risk if you are laying ad wait and hope for SP - even on some metro markets

[Rinconpaul]

how can and why would BF cancel lay betting. they are an exchange of opinions between bettors and layers.

They cancel layers and they cancel their business.

The trouble with their exchange business is they're only making 5-6.5% on half the turnover as opposed to having a 15% markup on 100% turnover if they just have a Fixed Price Tote. We all know that must be a successful business model as overseas bookies are trying to buy a share of the market.
A parallel might be CocaCola Amatil. They make 100's of millions in profit a year and own SPC Ardmona who allegedly lose millions each year. If they closed down, that'd upset a few people(aka Layers), but as a listed company with shareholders their charter is to make a profit at all costs.

I guess it's about economy of scale, Australia has a fairly small population of Exchange users compared with the UK, dunno? I hope not.

[aussielongboat]

The trouble with their exchange business is they're only making 5-6.5% on half the turnover as opposed to having a 15% markup on 100% turnover if they just have a Fixed Price Tote. We all know that must be a successful business model as overseas bookies are trying to buy a share of the market.
A parallel might be CocaCola Amatil. They make 100's of millions in profit a year and own SPC Ardmona who allegedly lose millions each year. If they closed down, that'd upset a few people(aka Layers), but as a listed company with shareholders their charter is to make a profit at all costs.

I guess it's about economy of scale, Australia has a fairly small population of Exchange users compared with the UK, dunno? I hope not.

to state the obvious they are 2 different businesses.
the closest thing, unless i am mistaken, that BF get to risk exposure is their best tote product. everything else they are facilitators .

corporate bookmaking is a much different beast with fixed prices, price assessment etc.

[Chrome Prince]

Betfair are solely responsible for their own downturn in customers and revenue.
They were getting between 2% and 5% commission on ALL winning bets.
That is an extremely massive revenue stream when one considers the turnover on all the races they cover.
That also had no risk whatsoever, a massive money making machine.

However, since it was publicly listed, they could not report expected growth as punters come and go, a bit like sales, customers drop off, and customers join, one is constantly filling a funnel. There was no growth model at all.
So the boffins decided to hit it's very core customers who supply liquidity which is the lifeblood of any exchange.

Short sighted bean counters decided on a Premium Charge.
The growth graph looked hypothetically great in reporting statements to shareholders and the market.
This is business mistakes for dummies stuff. Hit your best customers where it hurts with no discount for loyalty or turnover.

And there has been more fallout than Chernobyl!

1) It was no longer viable to trade (in the traditional sense) on any market whatsoever.
2) The winning traders left for greener pastures at the expense of liquidity and profit - NEVER TO RETURN.
3) The markets lost more than half it's liquidity leaving punters unable to get set on anything greater than 10/1 for decent amounts.
4) Markets devoid of liquidity meant that the prices were only driven by punters, therefore as a market total virtually became 100% on average, with commission on top. Meat was sheared off the bone.
5) Thousands of punters left in droves.
6) Revenue and growth dropped massively and stagnated with no hope of redemption.

Good one Betfair!

However, this does not mean there is not value to be had.
But the bread and butter traders and recreational punters are the ones hit hard. There are ways around everything, but Betfair have killed their own share price and value.
The latest from the bean counters is to offer fixed odds, scoop up the overround and trade out on liability on the exchange to try and restore some liquidity.

Well, that ain't going to work.

Exchange users want an exchange.
Recreational punters (in the main) will use the bookies or tote.
Leaving only the smarties scooping odds anomalies, costing Betfair yet again.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.
Or to be more precise, a degree should never take the place of knowledge.

[aussielongboat]

i will have to buy some new glasses..
does BF offer fixed odds ?
i know you can fix in the exchange market but i havent noticed a fixed odds section?

where is it please ?

[Chrome Prince]

It's there for UK markets, and coming to Oz markets very shortly, got a call from Betfair this morning about it.

[Rinconpaul]

Betfair are solely responsible for their own........................ There are none so blind as those who cannot see.
Or to be more precise, a degree should never take the place of knowledge.

Beautifully put CP. How about leaking this summary to the press? It might spur someone on to write a story, maybe the ABC....hey??...lol

[The Ocho]

CP, do you mind if I put that one on the Betfair site (sighting yourself and this site or not)? Someone who may have a say might see something like that over there rather than here.

[Chrome Prince]

Feel free to post it TO, but no names preferred.

[jose]

Post #27 is spot on CP.

[The Ocho]

Post #27 is spot on CP.
I posted it on Betfair (see link - no names) and the first response had a go at it but then I didn't really explain the context of the fixed tote product coming in here. Mind you I posted it on the Aussie forum so you would think they would know.

Link below (I think you have to switch to standard view to see the complete response).
http://community.betfair.com/australian/go/thread/view/93998/30191347/betfair-killing-betfair-especially-for-layers#flvWelcomeHeader

[tedbluegum]

Hi All

Betfair (Tim Manson) have confirmed they have no intention of phasing out Lay betting ever.

and -
After at least 6 emails they inform me that LAY results and prices for any race meeting within Australia WILL NOT be available.

Regards
Ted

[Rinconpaul]

Hi All

Betfair (Tim Manson) have confirmed they have no intention of phasing out Lay betting ever.

and -
After at least 6 emails they inform me that LAY results and prices for any race meeting within Australia WILL NOT be available.

Regards
Ted

I think you might've misunderstood the last bit Ted. They could never Not publish results as that would contravene consumer law. They've just made it harder to find!

However, why don't you send your man Tim, CP's post and PS it with, "Well done Tim, to you and all the team, you've managed to achieve what every graduate from a' How to Run a Business into the Ground' course aspires to!"...lol

[Chrome Prince]

Read the responses.
I'll just reply here, as I don't like the BF forum much.

I am probably making more now than I did before, but it's harder and with Aus races I can't get set early on many horses, I have to wait until the last ten minutes. Before PC and levies, that was not the case.

1) It was no longer viable to trade (in the traditional sense) on any market whatsoever.

Nonsense.

Clearly this bloke is not a tick trader. Neither am I, I was just pointing out that tick traders have all but left because of the PC.

2) The winning traders left for greener pastures at the expense of liquidity and profit - NEVER TO RETURN.

Less sharks in the pool means the smaller fish have got a chance. Make the most of it.

Nope, that doesn't follow. Less fish in the pool means a smaller pool in this case and prices that would have been there aren't, because traders aren't trying to get on or get out.

3) The markets lost more than half it's liquidity leaving punters unable to get set on anything greater than 10/1 for decent amounts.

It all comes down to supply and demand. If it's long prices you're looking for you'll normally find that anything that's not in the first 3 or 4 in the market in most races will drift out to big odds just before the race. As for "decent amounts", that's a very vague concept. The less greedy you are about price, the more you'll get set for, just like any other betting medium.

I did not do any betting for the early part of yesterday, I watched the markets quite a bit though. The amount of money available at anything outside a few fancied runners even on metro races was dismal (with some exceptions). Greedy is a vague concept also.


4) Markets devoid of liquidity meant that the prices were only driven by punters, therefore as a market total virtually became 100% on average, with commission on top. Meat was sheared off the bone.

I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

He doesn't understand market percentages fully.

5) Thousands of punters left in droves.

Because all the whingers kept talking the place down.

No they left the forum for that reason, they left Betfair because of Premium Charges - fact.

6) Revenue and growth dropped massively and stagnated with no hope of redemption.

More doom and gloom. And isn't that more a problem for the share-holders and bean counters? Why should punters give a flying fig, as long as we can get a bet on.

Because it's getting harder and harder to get a bet on, that's the point.

[The Ocho]

I put your response up CP but all I got was some banal piece of crap. You're right about that forum and I too don't go there much at all - only when something happens like your original post that I put up there.

[Chrome Prince]

Betfair's forum actually used to be quite good years ago, plenty of interesting topics and contributions, but these days it's full of time wasters except for the occasional contributions.

[Rinconpaul]

Another casualty of the NEW Betfair results page is the Advantage Comparison Tool. It's their for all to see as in the final % AFTER the race, but not available BEFORE the race anymore. I found it a very useful tool, and for the life of me, I don't know why they pulled the plug on it displaying before the race start. Another genius move by the 'kid'!

The software was freely available back in 2007 and I know Chrome had used it, as I've read your old postings. It's no longer available for download now, it just reverts back to Betfair's results page. The only trouble with the tool prior to the race start was it was taking the average of totes and comparing it with the Betfair Back price, so it was pretty unstable as an indicator. What you saw on the screen a second before the close was never the same after, out by a long way at times.

Can anybody suggest a software, not reliant on the API close that can display the % difference between a nominated, (let's say Unibet) bookie site's Fixed price and the Betfair Back price? There are sites around that display, on one page, all prices live but you can't nominate two as a % comparison.

[Chrome Prince]

Simply cannot get set for decent amounts on anything other than the first two firmers in the market. I've abandoned the rest of the day in disgust.
Now most of my betting has (by necessity) to be on UK and Ire.
Grandpa nap and then up for some decent markets.

Premium Charges suck!

[Rinconpaul]

Premium Charges suck!

I just finished typing another email to Tim Manson. 2 days ago I queried my statement and the premium charge. I was specific in all details. Never got a reply, so chased him up again. All he sends back is the Premium Charges rules transcript. His answer is just a cut & paste. So I've had to fire back again!

The trouble with their rules fineprint is it's just that, toooo fine! Just on that, I note their rules are all based on the mother currency pounds. Now I'm no corporate lawyer, but I would have thought it illegal for an Australian registered company to use a foreign currency in it's terminology? How does an Australian consumer relate to it, in terms of understanding it's value....."They mislead me your honour, as I equated pounds to meaning dollars??"

[Chrome Prince]

I've found account managers to be very good, but when they forward something to another department for investigation, all you get are cut and paste responses. Very frustrating when that response does not even cover your query.

Liquidity was dismal today, have to wait for Metro meetings only I think.
Problem is, I'm out working during Wednesdays and Saturdays with the neddies :(

[Rinconpaul]

You try and Lay $500L for a Place on a horse priced to Back for the Win at $48, and the Place SP is $835! It's a joke.

[Lord Greystoke]

Looks like you are correct Chrome.. the system is 'broken', chaps. Are there no profitable hotspots left to pick amongst here?

LG

[Chrome Prince]

There's plenty of angles LG, but can you get set?
Liquidity is dust....crickets. :(
It's like the harness markets used to be a few years ago, only much worse.
Time for a pint and pickle before GB races to make a nickle.
Aye up ;)

[UselessBettor]

I don't get the liquiditry problem. I can thousands on any of these runners :

This is Doomben R 7.

TotalMarketPercentage=0.9817202046992963

2. OFFSHORE ECHO = 34.0 / 32.0
3. BELTONIC = 14.5 / 14.0
4. FINAL JEST = 4.7 / 4.6
5. PURE COURAGE = 20.0 / 19.0
6. TOPKAPI = 12.0 / 11.5
7. VAN ROSSUM = 44.0 / 40.0
8. SOAKED = 12.5 / 12.0
9. TADDEI TONDO = 6.6 / 6.4
10. SPACE = 16.0 / 14.5
11. BEFITTING = 32.0 / 30.0
12. BERNIE OF BABYLON = 18.0 / 17.0
14. GRAND ORATOR = 40.0 / 38.0
15. MIGHTIEST = 9.2 / 9.0

[norisk]

Agree UselessBettor.

the whinging around here lately is a real putoff.

[Mark]

Only those that don't pay it have no reason to "whinge".

[Chrome Prince]

Agreed there are some metro races where the liquidity is reasonable, but most others it's almost ridiculous.
Two minutes to go at Geelong and if you want a decent bet, you're restricted to first and second favourites. Anything else is a waste of time.
Unless I bet in $5 lots, there's just no hope of getting matched.

I also think there a message here that some might have overlooked.
Yeah, I had a whinge, and I believe rightly so, but even if you overlook that aspect, there's a moral here.....

Whatever a system, approach, arb, method or ratings you have researched and come up with some figures, the real world question is - can you get matched.
And can you get matched at the odds required or is your money like a tumbleweed?

[Pat123]

Overall I have no issue with getting matched when arbing. Haven't seen any arbs today though.. pretty weird.

[blackdog1]

not doubting anything said before but my experience is that to be set for $200 at odds of about $8 to $15 is near impossible most days, that's for backing.

Saturday mets is slightly different but not much.

[Lord Greystoke]

Hows about around the $50-100 range, blackdog. A near certainty most days?

LG

[blackdog1]

Hows about around the $50-100 range, blackdog. A near certainty most days?

LGqué?

[Lord Greystoke]

Blackdog, you said that to get set at 200 quid backing is near impossible at 8s to 15s, at what range are you likely to get on most of the time with this odds range?

<$200
$100 - 200
$50 - 100 etc

LG

[blackdog1]

Blackdog, you said that to get set at 200 quid backing is near impossible at 8s to 15s, at what range are you likely to get on most of the time with this odds range?

<$200
$100 - 200
$50 - 100 etc

LGI think what we have here is a failure to communicate, and I'm certain it's entirely my fault having a poor command of the English language.

I bet in the range of $6 to $25 and my usual bet would be $200.

Early on when BF started, it was hardly a problem to get matched.

Only the last couple of years or so that I encountered this problem, so much so that I mostly give BF the flick, to wait for a match fighting bots you might miss placing a bet on other mediums.

[Lord Greystoke]

All understood. Thank you for elaborating.

Cheers LG

[UselessBettor]

I looked at a trots meet where I had a bet. The Around figures are the liquidity.

1. BOLD AND FAMOUS = 7.6 / 7.2 Around $80 / $150
2. STARZZZ ON PARADE = 540.0 / 95.0 Around $80 / $120
3. BACMANTURNER = 26.0 / 16.5 Around $70 / $50
4. LUCK PLEASE = 17.0 / 14.5 Around $70 / $60
5. THE PLAINSMAN = 17.0 / 16.0 Around $40 / $50
6. SUNSHINE FILLY = 7.0 / 5.8 Around $50 / $50
7. DREAMTIME SARA = 1.91 / 1.88 Around $500 / $400

Its not a great market. Its on late and not many people in the pool.

For the backers it really sucks . But for the layers there is more then enough liquidity.

If I want to lay $200 liability I can do it on any of those horses easily. Its really only a backers $10 on some of them.

So I see what you mean but most of my systems are laying systems and thus I see lots of liquidity for my liability amounts.

[Chrome Prince]

I looked at a trots meet where I had a bet. The Around figures are the liquidity.

1. BOLD AND FAMOUS = 7.6 / 7.2 Around $80 / $150
2. STARZZZ ON PARADE = 540.0 / 95.0 Around $80 / $120
3. BACMANTURNER = 26.0 / 16.5 Around $70 / $50
4. LUCK PLEASE = 17.0 / 14.5 Around $70 / $60
5. THE PLAINSMAN = 17.0 / 16.0 Around $40 / $50
6. SUNSHINE FILLY = 7.0 / 5.8 Around $50 / $50
7. DREAMTIME SARA = 1.91 / 1.88 Around $500 / $400

Its not a great market. Its on late and not many people in the pool.

For the backers it really sucks . But for the layers there is more then enough liquidity.

If I want to lay $200 liability I can do it on any of those horses easily. Its really only a backers $10 on some of them.

So I see what you mean but most of my systems are laying systems and thus I see lots of liquidity for my liability amounts.

I think it demonstrates a few things.
For backers, it sucks and actually this is one of the better markets, some of the country races are far worse than this, so there must be a bit of interest in this race.

Look at the spread for anything bar Bold and Famous and Dreamtime Sara, it's almost impossible to get any value.

From a lay aspect:
2. STARZZZ ON PARADE Betfair: 540.0 Fixed: 51.00
3. BACMANTURNER Betfair: 26.0 Fixed: 13.00
4. LUCK PLEASE Betfair: 17.0 Fixed: 11.00
5. THE PLAINSMAN Betfair: 17.0 Fixed: 10.00
6. SUNSHINE FILLY Betfair: 7.0 Fixed: 4.60

Anyone can see at a glance that it's impossible to lay any of these horses, and make money at these odds plus commission.
The point is that the spread in the market is just too great due to the lack of liquidity.

It's not all doom and gloom there are still many aspects of the exchange that are well worthwhile, just a dismay at how the Premium Charges have caused so much damage to liquidity.

[UselessBettor]

Anyone can see at a glance that it's impossible to lay any of these horses, and make money at these odds plus commission.
The point is that the spread in the market is just too great due to the lack of liquidity.

It's not all doom and gloom there are still many aspects of the exchange that are well worthwhile, just a dismay at how the Premium Charges have caused so much damage to liquidity.
I agree the premium charge has had an effect but I made money on the race. And I'll continue making money on these races as long as there are a few punters around.

At least the soccer still has large sums of cash on them and if I need to I can move to that sport more heavily :)

[Rinconpaul]

Haven't seen any arbs today though.. pretty weird.

It was a weird day. Every morning one of my routines is to look at every race from yesterday and look at the "spread" of fluctuations for every horse. By 'spread', I mean the space between Open fluc and final Fixed price. Students of my methods know, that there is a lot of information revealed in the DNA of fluctuations. Yesterday was unusual in that the spreads across the board were very tight both horizontally (Open to Fixed) and vertically (Open prices of 1st 5 or 6 favourites). Not sure why it occurs, but my guess is that the bookies are unsure on the winning prospects of the first half dozen horses and are keeping the prices tight in all directions, hence why there wasn't too many Arb opportunities.

What do you do on days like that? If I was a Backer, I'd be looking at the exotics, boxing those clusters for a trifecta. As a Layer, Laying the 2nd group of tailenders. From the screenshot below, this was a pretty common scenario yesterday.

[Chrome Prince]

Astonishing!!!


Dear XXX,

At Betfair you always get the best possible products and services. To ensure you continue to get a premium experience, we are increasing the base commission rate on Betfair Exchange markets in your country to 6.5% from January 30th.

You can of course continue to earn significant discounts of up to 60% on this commission rate through the Betfair points system. A full explanation of how your commission is calculated can be found at Betfair Learning.

This rate increase does not apply to any promotional markets with a fixed commission rate.

Thank you for your continued business and good luck with your future betting at Betfair.

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Note this is aside from any levy or premium charge.

Here's a quote from the Betfair forum....

i read betfair on twitter yesterday, when asked about how this might affect liquidity, they tweeted that do not expect the increases to affect liquidity.

:eek:

[UselessBettor]

Its not in the UK. Its the same as when AUS went up. Its just some smaller countries.


Mind you in 6 months the UK will go to 6.5% too.

[Lord Greystoke]

It would appear broke, gentlemen. Someone's boat got floated but it wasn't the client's. If it is increasingly non profitable to do your business on the lay side and there is a further 6m stretch of leaks and creaks in the timbers to come, why not short the ship?

Might be a whole lot more pleasurable.

LG

[The Ocho]

It would appear broke, gentlemen. Someone's boat got floated but it wasn't the client's. If it is increasingly non profitable to do your business on the lay side and there is a further 6m stretch of leaks and creaks in the timbers to come, why not short the ship?

Might be a whole lot more pleasurable.

LG
The ultimate lay bet!