LONHRO the great

[crash]

As I said ... King had the local advantage and proved it on a horse who has never won a group 1 race against very ordinary WFA pretenders in a truely run race. Thank you King and to Nash Rawiller on Paraca for setting what the doctor ordered ... a decent pace.

Lonhro a champion [yeah, like Collingwood] ? Champions win the championship race. What excuses this year, a bit of late rain ? He should stick to sprint races in Sydney where their jockeys didn't have a clue how to show him up and kept handing him races on a plate made to measure. The Cox is no such Plate.

Cheers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 08:00 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 08:34 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 15:13 ]</font>

[Chrome Prince]

It really cracks me up that the media is now crowning Fields Of Omagh Championship status.

A bridesmaid in the big ones before yesterday and yet suddenly "we have a new champ"

Please!

Let's analyse this for a moment with pure statistics and leave emotion out of it.

Prizemoney before yesterday:
Lonhro $4,134,080
Fields $1,227,890
Defier $2,106,750

Lonhro on top with more prizemoney than the other two combined. If they are very good horses, what's Lonhro?

Wins before yesterday:
Lonhro 22 from 29
Fields 9 from 24
Defier 9 from 28

Lonhro clearly on top with more wins than either of them and a much higher strike rate than the two of them put together.

But wait there's more :smile:

Fields : NEVER won at Grp 1 level before yesterday.
Won one Grp 2, one Grp3 and two LR.
Won at Moonee Valley before.
Beaten by Roman Arch, Exceed and Excel, Yell, Magical Miss and Northerly.
Never raced in Sydney.

Defier : Won 2 Grp1 races, 3 Grp2 and one LR.
Second by a length at the Valley behind Northerly.
Beaten by Lonhro 4 times, Northerly, Fiery Venture, Spinning Hill, Gordo, Excellerator and a heap of horses never heard of again.

And then we have Lonhro - no champ they say???
Beaten by Defier twice, but Lonhro beat him 4 times.
Also beaten by Grand Armee and Northerly.
Never won at the Valley.
Winner of 8 Group1 races
Winner of 9 Group2 races
Winner of 1 Group3 race
Winner of 1 Listed Race.

So what's the conclusion?
To crown Fields Of Omagh a champ because of one win on a track that suits is laughable.

Lonhro still has far more accumulated prizemoney than the others even after yesterday.
Has won far more races at group level than the others combined.
Has a far superior win strike rate.
Still has a better record against Defier.
And beaten by Grand Armee and Northerly - no slouch.

The ONLY area that Lonhro falls down at, is he just doesn't like Moonee Valley.

Lonhro is still the champ regardless and the stats prove it.

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2003-10-29 21:03 ]</font>

[crash]

Lonhro with that much money might make him a good capitalist but definately no champion. Some punters are just a bit desperate for anything they can call a champion.
$$$ do not a champion make or if they do Rupert Murdoch is a "champion" Australian [who just lives in the USA at the moment].

FOO is no champ but better than the rest on the day in one of the weakest Cox plates ever. Won by a horse who has never won a group 1 says it all about the comp. and everything about Lonhro's ability beyond 1600m. in truely run races.

Ho hum, roll on the Melbourne Cup !

Cheers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 17:52 ]</font>

[La Mer]

[quote]
On 2003-10-26 15:43, Chrome Prince wrote:
It really cracks me up that the media is now crowning Fields Of Omagh Championship status.

Defier : Won 2 Grp1 races, 3 Grp2 and one LR.
Second by a length at the Valley behind Northerly.
Beaten by Lonhro 4 times,

Beaten by Defier twice, but Lonhro beat him 4 times.

Still has a better record against Defier.

The ONLY area that Lonhro falls down at, is he just doesn't like Moonee Valley.

La Mer: Chrome Prince - Defier has beaten Lonhro home as many times Lonhro has beaten Defier. The score is 4 each and not 4-2 in Lonhro's favour. Defier has finished second in two Cox Plates while Lonhro has managed a third in two Cox Plates.

While I've got no doubt that Lonhro is the better of the two, the difference may not be as great as you indicate - perhaps they will meet again when both horses are at their peak fitness, as both in its autumn campaign earlier this year and during its current campaign Defier has had fitness concerns.

Your comments re Lonhro not liking the Valley are well off the mark - nothing at all to do with the Valley, the fact was Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn yesterday and once again could not sustain his run in a pressure race - it has happened twice now, yesterday and in the Doncaster Handicap when Grand Armee clearly outsprinted him in the run home.

If Lonhro did not handle the Valley then he simply wouldn't have been where he was at the turn, one length off the lead, but he was and while excuses can be made the facts are that in probablity he will retire to stud next year without ever winning one of the major races in Austrlia and therefore will not go down as a memorable champion. Good he may well be, but champions are made of sterner stuff.

[Chrome Prince]

On 2003-10-26 18:54, La Mer wrote:
La Mer: Chrome Prince - Defier has beaten Lonhro home as many times Lonhro has beaten Defier. The score is 4 each and not 4-2 in Lonhro's favour. Defier has finished second in two Cox Plates while Lonhro has managed a third in two Cox Plates.


I was comparing when one of the horses won a race, it matters not to me if one horse finished fourth and one finished second.


Your comments re Lonhro not liking the Valley are well off the mark - nothing at all to do with the Valley, the fact was Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn yesterday and once again could not sustain his run in a pressure race - it has happened twice now, yesterday and in the Doncaster Handicap when Grand Armee clearly outsprinted him in the run home.

If Lonhro did not handle the Valley then he simply wouldn't have been where he was at the turn, one length off the lead, but he was and while excuses can be made the facts are that in probablity he will retire to stud next year without ever winning one of the major races in Austrlia and therefore will not go down as a memorable champion. Good he may well be, but champions are made of sterner stuff.


Interesting take you have there.
How can my comments be way off the mark when clearly he didn't stretch out as normal after rounding the home turn.
It is the only (to my knowledge) banked track in Australia and some horses just do not perform well on certain tracks.

The fact that Lonhro is a superior horse, is indicated by he was where he was rounding the home turn IN SPITE of not being able to run at his best on the track.

We seem to be concentrating on the pace of the race etc etc

2003 Cox Plate Time:2:07.61 last 600 38.48
2002 Cox Plate Time:1:26.30
2001 Cox Plate Time:1:25.80

So it was one of the slowest Cox Plates and had Lonhro been able to handle the track, it would have been a different outcome.

Each to their own.

Are we all forgetting Northerly's defeats to lesser horses:
Freemason
Grand City
Republic Lass
Mr Trickster (a provincial specialist)
Yell

He failed to ever win a race in Sydney, and yet he is branded a champion???

[Dupain]

Lonhro cannot be considered a Champion. He simply has not made the grade, can't handle true presure. Has he won a Slipper, Derby, Doncaster, Cox Plate, Australian Cup, Caulfield Cup, Melbourne Cup, Hong Kong Cup, Dubia Cup, Japan Cup? NO NO NO

Fields of Omagh, coming back from a career threatening injury,on a limited preparation and to tough it out at the end of the plate shows true qualities of a Champion.

Lee Freeman you're a Champion trainer.

Like in all sports to be crowned as a Champion you have to win a Championship eg. Wimbledon, Champions League Cup, Rugby World Cup, Premierships. You can win as many races or matches as you like but if you don't win the ones thst count then you cannot be considered a Champion.

Lohnro reminds me of Collingwood, Cronulla Sharks, Chelsea, English Rugby Team etc.

[Chrome Prince]

On 2003-10-27 02:49, Dupain wrote:
Has he won a Slipper, Derby, Doncaster, Cox Plate, Australian Cup, Caulfield Cup, Melbourne Cup, Hong Kong Cup, Dubia Cup, Japan Cup? NO NO NO


Hmmm 2 Yalumba's, 1 George Main, 1 Mackinnon, Chipping Norton, Darley,Queen Elizabeth, Caulfield Guineas etc etc.


Fields of Omagh, coming back from a career threatening injury,on a limited preparation and to tough it out at the end of the plate shows true qualities of a Champion.


So Fields Of Omagh is a champion after winning 1 Group 1 race????


Lee Freeman you're a Champion trainer.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

He may well be - but Tony McEvoy trains Fields Of Omagh.

[Dupain]

Chrome Prince,

Lee trained the CC winner, I was comparing his tough times with F.O.O. and to pull out a big one when it counts is the sign of a Champion.

F.O.O has only one Group 1 but it is the one that counts.

Lonhro would have been a Champion if Lee trained him. Lee has won ALL THE BIG ONES.

[crash]

"Lonhro did not stretch out as normal" La Mer wrote [?]

And what is "normal" stretching out ? Normal for Lonhro is to get it all his own way without pressure and then do what he does best, a short sprint and in that department he really is a good horse.How good we will never know due to poor comp.

Lonhro's fuel tank in the Cox was empty when needed and from the best barrier and with the best Sydney Jockey in the race, there were no excuses. If it had been a 1600m does anyone believe he would have lost at MV ? It was not the track but the distance that was the problem.
Hawkes would say "unsuitable race" not unsuitable track. When Hawkey was asked last week if he thought Lonhro a champ, he avoided the question by saying "lets see if he can win the Cox". Hawkes has always doubted Lonhro's "genuine" ability beyond 1600m.
In his regular feature in the Winning Post were he rates all his Saterday starters [worth a read], there was one horse missing any mention or comment. Lonhro. Hawkes knew the game was up unless Lonhro had a huge amount of luck and privilege [Sydney style] in the race and his only excuse in loosing was that he didn't get it.
Champs need other champs to prove themselves against and Lonhro just didn't get that chance in his winning races and now never will. His group 1 wins and $$$ account for ziltch in the Championship dept.

Cheers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-27 08:01 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-27 08:03 ]</font>

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[umrum]

Are we all forgetting Northerly's defeats to lesser horses:
Freemason
Grand City
Republic Lass
Mr Trickster (a provincial specialist)
Yell

He failed to ever win a race in Sydney, and yet he is branded a champion???



are we forgetting Northerly's 2 cox plates beating the best field ever assembled last year. Beating the great mare and a brillant 3 yo the year before. are we forgetting NOrtherly's caufield cup weight carrying record(22 years). are we forgetting northerly's 2 australian cups the first in course record after travelling 3 wide the trip and winning by 3 1/2 lengths. No we are not forgetting those.

His loss to freemason - he broke the course record, payne slaughtered him, he took off 1100 from home and lost by a lip. i can forgive him.

His loss to republic lass - beaten on his merits.

HIs loss to grand city - fred kersley sent out a search party for northerly and P. Payne. shocking ride. got clear 100 out with 60 kg 's and stormed home.

Mr trickster - 9 kg pull in weights on wet track. weight will stop a train.

Yell - champion sprinter, it was a fitness run for northerly he ran the quickest last 600 of the race and again was ridden poorly by payne. had he been up the front he would have won.

now lonhro was beaten by SPORTSBRAT and royal courtship and true jewels. Have we forgotten these defeats - no champions there.

[LONHRO 19]

HELLO GUYS
IT HURTS ME TO SAY THIS BUT I ARGREE WITH CRASH.IT WASNT THE TRACK OR THE RIDE. LONHRO JUST DOES NOT HAVE THAT TURN OF FOOT WHEN THE PACE IS ON.BUT HE IS STILL MY FAV HORSE.GOOD WIN FOO.
CHEERS

[Chrome Prince]

Hilarious!

Why can't we compare the same things and argue along the same lines instead of chopping and changing to suit.

1. It was said that the pressure of the race did Lonhro in.

Incorrect. The Cox Plate was the slowest for some years with a dismal last 600m.

2. I didn't say Northerly wasn't a champ, but surely if you're going to make excuses for his defeats, why can't the same be done for Lonhro?

3. My point was that Northerly did not handle the Sydney way of going just as Lonhro did not handle the Valley.
Yes, Northerly lost by a lip to Freemason, which is an indication of his heart, just as Lonhro was beaten only a length in a race on a track which did not suit him.


And what is "normal" stretching out ? Normal for Lonhro is to get it all his own way without pressure and then do what he does best, a short sprint and in that department he really is a good horse.How good we will never know due to poor comp.


Normal stretching out is having a fluid action and normal stride, if you think Lonhro's stride was fluid and normal in the straight, then you weren't watching the same race I was.

Now we have people declaring Fields Of Omagh a champion after one Group1 win :roll:

Let's be consistant in the argument at least.

_________________
"The man who can correctly assess Class can have all the money he wants and he only needs a dollar to start". - Pittsburg Phil

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chrome Prince on 2003-10-27 12:51 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chrome Prince on 2003-10-27 12:52 ]</font>

[stebbo]

Champ or no Champ.... I sure wish I had a share in him.... and is there anyone on this list who wouldn't?

Before this start... 29 starts winning $4.1Mill.... Personally, I wouldn't care if he was the ugliest horse that no-one loved... cos if he were mine I'd sure love him - and he would be a champ to me.....

Just a different look at things.

Cheers,
Chris.

[Chrome Prince]

My final proof that it wasn't the pace of the race that did Lonhro in, nor the race distance - suspect beyond 1600m, I think not!

25/10/03
2040m Cox Plate Time:2:07.61 last 600 38.48 Track-MV

11/10/03
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:22.3 Track-Caulfield

3/5/03
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:24.8 Track-Randwick

2/11/2002
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:22.6 Track-Flemington

26/10/02
2040m Cox Plate Time:1:26.30 beaten out of sight track-MV

12/10/2002
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:20.60 Track-Caulfield

[puntz]

I still think Lonhro is champion, look at the past 4 start pre CP. s1111 and now a s11113
What I looked at is how long can a horse, a animal go and keep getting those 1's along side their form.
Who knows, perhaps next preperation may tell a different story. Still, I put it doen to endurance and in this case many punters should have been the wiser on a s1111 form. The media blow it all out of proportion.
How about some of you re-do your form study and ratings, assume Lonhro was scratched.
I bet there will be a different set of favs and FOO would stood out, mine would have Clangalang 1st and FOO for 2nd had I assumed Lonhro scratched.
Still, I sayed out of betting that race. I would have put even money on each. I now wish I had !
Oh well...

[Fishbones]

After reading the posts regarding Lohnro, I believe he is a great horse but not yet a champion. After watching the race on the weekend I was reminded of a horse that doesn't get mentioned so much these days when talking about Cox Plate winners. Lonhro this year was presented with a very similar task to the one that Better Loosen Up was set when he won the Cox Plate. The only difference being is that one is a champion whilst the other is a great horse.

When Better Loosen Up won the Cox Plate he was more that 20 lengths off the lead that was set by Savage Toss and Stylish Century at the half way mark. Hard ridden from about the 1000 meters, Better Loosen Up cornered 3 or 4 wide around the turn to defeat the likes of Sydeston, Super Impose, Canny Lad and more to win in what was at the time the fastest Cox Plate in history. A time it took Might and Power to beat around 10 years later. Whats more is that next start, Better Loosen Up went on to beat some of the best in the world in the Japan Cup. He came back next spring to win the Australian Cup by five lengths without being hard ridden. Whilst being prepared to take on the best races in Sydney he was injured in trackwork. Now in my mind, that is a Champion!!!

You can debate that he probably should have won another Cox Plate a few years later if it wasn't for severe interference where he finished 5th. A protest was lodged 5th against 2nd and it was upheld which gives you a bit of an idea about the interference he received.

Better Loosen Up won a similar amount of career prizemoney to that of what Lonhro has won to date and he raced nearly 15 years ago.

Nevertheless congrats to Fields Of Omagh for a well deserved win even though I didn't back him.

Good Luck to you all with your punting over the next week or so. I think the cups king looks set to add to his tally.

[Chrome Prince]

Sound analysis there Fishbones.

If Fields Of Omagh wins the Japan Cup, I'd be flabbergated, in fact if he finishes within 3 lengths of the winner I'll change my signature to "Fields Of Omagh - Houdini"

[El Gordo]

Bit slow at the office today, hey Chrome ? :smile:

[TESTAROSSA]

On 2003-10-26 18:54, La Mer wrote:
Your comments re Lonhro not liking the Valley are well off the mark - nothing at all to do with the Valley, the fact was Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn yesterday and once again could not sustain his run in a pressure race


Just because Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn does not mean he handled the track...as people have already mentioned it was one of the weakest Cox Plate fields and so we would expect Lonhro to be close up to the winner even if we knew 100% that he didn't handle track.

E.g - If Lonhro raced over 2040m at M.V against Class 6 horses and we knew 100% that he doesn't handle M.V surely we would expect him to still win the race!!!!!


- it has happened twice now, yesterday and in the Doncaster Handicap when Grand Armee clearly outsprinted him in the run home.


Notice how both races were run just after rain had fell and that Lonhro was 3 wide in the Doncaster and still finished 5th or 6th and that day at Randwick was totally bias towards leaders.

I wouldn't call the last 600m of those 2 races as sprints home, both were one of the slowest 600m's in both races previous history.


the facts are that in probablity he will retire to stud next year without ever winning one of the major races in Austrlia and therefore will not go down as a memorable champion. Good he may well be, but champions are made of sterner stuff.


Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought every Group 1 race in Australia was a major race regardless of the amount of prizemoney on offer.

[El Gordo]

The old switch-a-roo!, I like it :lol:

[La Mer]

On 2003-10-27 16:17, TESTAROSSA wrote:
[quote]
Just because Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn does not mean he handled the track.

La Mar: Lonhro's defeat had little to do with either the track or the conditions. Horses that have an adversity to a certain track simply do not run the sectionals that Lonhro ran in the Cox Plate, while his previous dead track form was six wins from six starts.

The answer for his defeat is elsewhere such as an inablity to sustain his run.


[quote]

Notice how both races were run just after rain had fell and that Lonhro was 3 wide in the Doncaster and still finished 5th or 6th and that day at Randwick was totally bias towards leaders.

I wouldn't call the last 600m of those 2 races as sprints home, both were one of the slowest 600m's in both races previous history.

La Mer: You need to check your facts, the last 600m sectional in this year's Doncater was more than comparable with other in years gone past, i.e. this year's on a slow track it was 35.63s, while in 2002 on a good track it was 35.41s, in 2001 also on a good track it was 35.52s, while again on a good track in 2000 it was 36.06s.

[quote]
Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought every Group 1 race in Australia was a major race regardless of the amount of prizemoney on offer.

La Mer: If you honestly believe that then you are sadly misguided. There are approximately 65 Group 1 races run in Australia during the season and they are not all majors by any stretch, i.e. The Goodwood Handicap is at best about group 3 level, while the Sydney Cup and the Metropolitan are about group 2 level at best, but there are many others.

Leaving aside the Golden Slipper, it is generally accepted that the four open-age majors in Australia are the Doncaster Handicap, the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups and the Cox Plate. It is arguable one or two others could be included, but the fact remains that Lonhro has failed to win any of the 'big four', the best being his third placing last Saturday.

It is also considered by many that besides being able to win one or more of the majors at WFA, a champion horse should have also won a group 1 handicap, preferably one of the big four majors, carrying weight. Only two horses in the last decade have really met that criteria, Sunline and Northerly, while it is arguable that perhaps Might and Power also fits that criteria in winning the Melbourne Cup, but he only carried 56kgs, unlike Sunline's 58kgs in winning the Doncaster or Northerly's 58kgs in winning the Caulfield Cup.

If my memory serves me correctly, I can think of only one horse in the last decade or thereabouts who has truly worn the champion tag and didn't win a major handicap race and that was Better Loosen Up, but I guess his Japen Cup win makes up for that. Regards.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: La Mer on 2003-10-27 18:21 ]</font>

[kenchar]

Hi all,
I dont care who's a champion or who is'nt.
All I know is I followed the thread on the cox plate and it seemed to come out as clanga or foo, I backed them both and thanks to everyone out there for their insight.

Cheers :lol:

[Chrome Prince]

[quote]
On 2003-10-27 18:43, Chrome Prince wrote:
[quote]
On 2003-10-27 18:16, La Mer wrote:

The answer for his defeat is elsewhere such as an inablity to sustain his run.

[quote]

La Mer,

I don't believe it was the dead track either, but if you don't believe it was the Valley, how do you account for all Lonhro's wins over 2000m where he could sustain his run in faster sectionals and much faster overall race times than were run on Saturday even on dead tracks.

There can only be one answer as I indicated.

On the sectionals that FOO ran, he will not finish in the first 5 in the Japan Cup.

(Loading up my Betfair account) :grin:

[TESTAROSSA]

On 2003-10-27 18:16, La Mer wrote:
Lonhro's defeat had little to do with either the track or the conditions. Horses that have an adversity to a certain track simply do not run the sectionals that Lonhro ran in the Cox Plate, while his previous dead track form was six wins from six starts.


When Lonhro wins his races his last 600m usually is around 33-34secs, his Cox Plate last 600m would have been around 37-38secs, thats a massive difference even on a dead track.


The answer for his defeat is elsewhere such as an inablity to sustain his run.


I cannot honestly believe that any racing fan could forget last years Yalumba where Lonhro ran down Sunline who had set a fair tempo and a 4-5 length lead into the turn and also run around a sub 35sec last 600m over 2000m and beat the wonder mare, if thats not a sustained run then FOO will win the Japan Cup by 10 lengths.



You need to check your facts, the last 600m sectional in this year's Doncater was more than comparable with other in years gone past, i.e. this year's on a slow track it was 35.63s, while in 2002 on a good track it was 35.41s, in 2001 also on a good track it was 35.52s, while again on a good track in 2000 it was 36.06s.


Quite right La Mer i apologize i was actually thinking of a different race altogeher, but it doesn't answer the Cox Plate sectionals.


If you honestly believe that then you are sadly misguided. There are approximately 65 Group 1 races run in Australia during the season and they are not all majors by any stretch, i.e. The Goodwood Handicap is at best about group 3 level, while the Sydney Cup and the Metropolitan are about group 2 level at best, but there are many others.


I totally agree that there are more then a few Group 1 races out there that are Group 2 races at best, but the fact is they are rated Group 1's which makes them on par with the Cox Plate and Caulfield Cups.

If these "Super Races" are better then other Group 1's then should be catoregised as such.

So if you owned a horse that won a Goodwood Hcp you would be going around saying your horse isn't a Group 1 Winner???

[umrum]

it seems everyone except lonhro fans can decipher the difference between a major G1 and a G1.

what 3 races do you think 99.999999'% of the population would most like to win.

I would think it would rank
1. Melb cup
2.cox plate
3. cauf cup

another point of view might be the purist or breeder

1. cox plate
2 golden slipper
3. doncaster

point is - there are majors

[stebbo]

On 2003-10-27 15:28, puntz wrote (among other things):
....s1111 and now a s11113....
What I looked at is how long can a horse.......keep getting those 1's

I have done a quick analysis of horses going into a Sat Metro race winning their last 4 races without a spell. I also required their last start to be a Sat Metro race. (I can't specify all 4 last starts to be Sat Metro or I would have)

Results are below.

Cheers,
Chris.

<pre>
SYSTEM SELECTOR REPORT FOR: 5 IN A ROW 30/11/2001-28/10/2003
Created by Price Predictor at 20:09:43 on 27/10/2003

5 IN A ROW: 25/10/2003 MOONEE VALLEY
MR 7 # 1 1111 LONHRO 5/1 ???? ????
5 IN A ROW: 18/10/2003 CAULFIELD
MR 2 # 2 1111 DELZAO 11/2 ???? ????
5 IN A ROW: 11/10/2003 EAGLE FARM
BR 6 #11 1111 MARTINO 20/1 WON 11.70 PL 3.40
5 IN A ROW: 20/09/2003 ROSEHILL
SR 1 # 4 1111 SPADING 9/2
5 IN A ROW: 13/09/2003 MOONEE VALLEY
MR 4 # 1 1111 OAMARU STORM 25/1
5 IN A ROW: 06/09/2003 FLEMINGTON
MR 2 #13 1111 SPADING 14/1 WON 4.30 PL 1.80 QN 6.40 EX 21.50
5 IN A ROW: 23/08/2003 DOOMBEN
BR 1 # 1 1111 WINSOME DANCER 9/4
BR 4 # 6 1111 PEKAN LADY 15/8
5 IN A ROW: 23/08/2003 CHELTENHAM
AR 4 # 1 1111 FULL SPEC 5/2 3RD PL 1.40
5 IN A ROW: 16/08/2003 EAGLE FARM
BR 5 # 1 1111 MARTINO 5/4 WON 2.00 PL 1.30 QN 12.20 EX 12.80
BR 6 # 1 1111 STAR OF SEQUALO 9/2 WON 2.70 PL 1.30 QN 9.00 EX 13.50 TT 121.60
5 IN A ROW: 09/08/2003 EAGLE FARM
BR 8 # 5 1111 MARTINO 11/2 WON 2.80 PL 1.60
5 IN A ROW: 02/08/2003 CHELTENHAM
AR 2 # 1 1111 ROMAN ARCH 5/4 WON 2.00 PL 1.20 QN 7.00 EX 7.40 TT 25.70
AR 4 # 2 1111 FULL SPEC 7/4 WON 3.40 PL 1.70 QN 5.30 EX 12.60
5 IN A ROW: 05/07/2003 ROSEHILL
SR 6 # 3 1111 MASKED 7/2 WON 2.30 PL 1.30 QN 5.90 EX 9.40
5 IN A ROW: 28/06/2003 CHELTENHAM
AR 6 # 2 1111 SCIATICA 12/1
5 IN A ROW: 17/05/2003 MORPHETTVILLE
AR 5 # 2 1111 SOUND ACTION 8/13 4TH
5 IN A ROW: 10/05/2003 MORPHETTVILLE
AR 4 #14 1111 JUG FULL 60/1
5 IN A ROW: 03/05/2003 RANDWICK
SR 5 # 7 1111 BOLLINGER 13/2
SR 8 # 6 1111 YELL 7/1 2ND PL 1.40
5 IN A ROW: 03/05/2003 MORPHETTVILLE
AR 6 # 4 1111 YVONNE 25/1
AR 6 #12 1111 SOUND ACTION 11/1 WON 3.40 PL 1.80 QN 38.00 EX 54.30
5 IN A ROW: 19/04/2003 RANDWICK
SR 8 # 2 1111 LONHRO 13/2 4TH
5 IN A ROW: 19/04/2003 ASCOT
WR 3 # 7 1111 CATION 5/1 2ND PL 1.04 QN 4.30
5 IN A ROW: 12/04/2003 CHELTENHAM
AR 7 # 3 1111 YVONNE 25/1 WON 5.00 PL 2.10 QN 8.70 EX 25.70
5 IN A ROW: 05/04/2003 CHELTENHAM
AR 4 # 1 1111 IDENTIFIABLE 11/2 WON 1.80 PL 1.30 QN 10.80 EX 12.20 TT 66.70
5 IN A ROW: 15/03/2003 WARWICK FARM
SR 3 #10 1111 HIGH LIFE 10/1
5 IN A ROW: 15/03/2003 FLEMINGTON
MR 6 # 6 1111 NO DEPOSIT 9/1
5 IN A ROW: 08/03/2003 MORPHETTVILLE
AR 5 # 2 1111 IDENTIFIABLE 5/1 WON 2.00 PL 1.20 QN 2.70 EX 5.30 TT 29.40
5 IN A ROW: 01/03/2003 ASCOT
WR 7 # 2 1111 MERCURY HALO 20/1 2ND PL 1.30 QN 5.40
5 IN A ROW: 22/02/2003 CAULFIELD
MR 7 # 5 1111 BRECON ROSE 10/1
5 IN A ROW: 07/12/2002 ASCOT
WR 8 # 4 1111 BLEVVO 13/4 WON 19.70 PL 4.60 QN 62.30 EX 130.90 TT 743.40
5 IN A ROW: 30/11/2002 ASCOT
WR 6 # 8 1111 BEAUTIFUL BON BON 11/1
5 IN A ROW: 23/11/2002 ASCOT
WR 8 # 2 1111 BLEVVO 15/4 WON 7.20 PL 2.90
5 IN A ROW: 16/11/2002 ASCOT
WR 3 # 2 1111 VAIN ZOE 1/2 2ND PL 1.10 QN 4.70
5 IN A ROW: 09/11/2002 DOOMBEN
BR 1 # 3 1111 SNEEM 11/4 2ND PL 1.04
5 IN A ROW: 09/11/2002 ASCOT
WR 1 # 1 1111 VAIN ZOE 6/4 WON 2.60 PL 1.50 QN 27.20 EX 31.30 TT 251.00
5 IN A ROW: 02/11/2002 ASCOT
WR 7 # 8 1111 KENTIARA 7/1 2ND PL 1.40 QN 15.40
5 IN A ROW: 26/10/2002 MOONEE VALLEY
MR 7 # 1 1111 NORTHERLY 5/2 WON 4.30 PL 1.70
5 IN A ROW: 26/10/2002 ASCOT
WR 3 # 1 1111 VAIN ZOE 6/4 WON 2.50 PL 1.60 QN 5.50 EX 8.70 TT 16.10
WR 4 # 1 1111 THOMPSON'S BAY 8/13 2ND PL 1.50 QN 2.00
5 IN A ROW: 19/10/2002 ASCOT
WR 7 # 5 1111 ZAHEED 15/1 3RD PL 1.80
5 IN A ROW: 12/10/2002 BELMONT PARK
WR 3 # 1 1111 VAIN ZOE 11/4 WON 4.60 PL 1.60 QN 17.80 EX 22.10 TT 110.00
5 IN A ROW: 05/10/2002 FLEMINGTON
MR 8 #15 1111 GOLDEN DELICIOUS 20/1 4TH
5 IN A ROW: 27/07/2002 BELMONT PARK
WR 7 # 3 1111 PERFECT MINX 11/1
5 IN A ROW: 06/07/2002 BELMONT PARK
WR 5 # 1 1111 TUMERIC 11/8 2ND PL 1.40 QN 3.90
5 IN A ROW: 29/06/2002 ROSEHILL
SR 8 # 4 1111 OAKFIELD DUKE 6/1 4TH
5 IN A ROW: 20/04/2002 DOOMBEN
BR 4 # 2 1111 RAMSTADIUS 9/2
5 IN A ROW: 30/03/2002 RANDWICK
SR 5 # 1 1111 CARNEGIE EXPRESS 9/4 2ND PL 1.10 QN 2.20
5 IN A ROW: 23/03/2002 MOONEE VALLEY
MR 4 # 1 1111 DASH FOR CASH 15/8 4TH
5 IN A ROW: 16/03/2002 ROSEHILL
SR 4 # 4 1111 KAAPGUN 10/1
SR 7 # 1 1111 CARNEGIE EXPRESS 9/4 WON 2.20 PL 1.30
SR 7 # 2 1111 DON EDUARDO 9/2 2ND PL 1.60 QN 3.10 EX 6.10 TT 35.90
5 IN A ROW: 02/03/2002 CANTERBURY
SR 5 # 7 1111 KAAPGUN 11/2 WON 5.70 PL 2.10 QN 29.80 EX 53.60 TT 255.20 FF 1707.70
5 IN A ROW: 16/02/2002 ASCOT
WR 7 # 1 1111 WHITE FOIL 9/2 2ND PL 1.60
5 IN A ROW: 26/01/2002 CAULFIELD
MR 5 # 2 1111 ICE DANCER 16/1
5 IN A ROW: 26/01/2002 ASCOT
WR 8 # 5 1111 WHITE FOIL 3/1 WON 3.10 PL 1.60 QN 3.60 EX 6.90
5 IN A ROW: 29/12/2001 ASCOT
WR 5 # 2 1111 TRUE AND CORRECT 11/2
5 IN A ROW: 15/12/2001 ASCOT
WR 4 # 2 1111 STAR OF ANGEL 9/4 2ND PL 1.50 QN 3.10
5 IN A ROW: 01/12/2001 ASCOT
WR 6 # 3 1111 STAR OF ANGEL 13/4 WON 3.80 PL 1.90

Meetings considered : 3894
Win Strike Rate/Seln. : 37.9%
Plc Strike Rate/Seln. : 62.1%
Average Win Dividend : $4.50

WIN PLACE
Races Bet : 56 56
Races Won : 22 35
S.R./Race : 39.3% 62.5%
Outlay ($): 58.00 58.00
Return : 99.10 59.98
$ Profit : 41.10 1.98
% P.O.T. : 70.9% 3.4%

If I restrict the races they are going *INTO* to be Listed Class or better,
then there are only 8 winners from 30 races... A S/R of 26%
</pre>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: stebbo on 2003-10-27 20:31 ]</font>

[Dupain]

Last 15 years since I've been following the races and have come up with this breakdown

Open Aged Champions
Bonecrusher
Better Loosen Up
Horlicks
Super Impose
Schillaci
Octagonal
Shatsbury Avenue
Lets Elope
Doriemus
Might and Power
Sunline
Northerly
Etheral

Elite G1 Horses
Vo Rogue
Naturalism
Stylish Century
Juene
Almmarad
Sydeston
Tie The Knot
Lonhro
Dane Ripper

[kenchar]

[quote]
On 2003-10-27 16:23, El Gordo wrote:
The old switch-a-roo!, I like it :lol:

Hi ELGORDO,
How the hell do you attach the giff to your signature, I have a ripper I want to use but dont know how to attach it.
Cheers

[Paddy]

I can answer that one for you kenchar. It’s all under the FAQ section of the forum.
See “Adding Images” at

http://www.propun.com.au/forums/faq.php#bbcode

[Fishbones]

It is also considered by many that besides being able to win one or more of the majors at WFA, a champion horse should have also won a group 1 handicap, preferably one of the big four majors, carrying weight. Only two horses in the last decade have really met that criteria, Sunline and Northerly, while it is arguable that perhaps Might and Power also fits that criteria in winning the Melbourne Cup, but he only carried 56kgs, unlike Sunline's 58kgs in winning the Doncaster or Northerly's 58kgs in winning the Caulfield Cup.

If my memory serves me correctly, I can think of only one horse in the last decade or thereabouts who has truly worn the champion tag and didn't win a major handicap race and that was Better Loosen Up, but I guess his Japen Cup win makes up for that. Regards.
[/quote]

I am unsure of this but did Super Impose carry 60kg in one of it's Sydney Mile wins, Doncaster I think.

[La Mer]

On 2003-10-28 13:08, Fishbones wrote: I am unsure of this but did Super Impose carry 60kg in one of it's Sydney Mile wins, Doncaster I think.

La Mer: I stand corrected Super Impose did win the Doncaster twice, once carrying 59.5kg in 1991, while carrying 57kgs to victory the year before.

And he did win the 1992 Cox Plate as an 8yo, albeit in what many consider fortunate circumstances, when three horses fell, including the favourite Naturalism, while Better Loosen Up suffered severe inteference caused by Let's Elope who as a result was relegated from 2nd to 5th.