As I said ... King had the local advantage and proved it on a horse who has never won a group 1 race against very ordinary WFA pretenders in a truely run race. Thank you King and to Nash Rawiller on Paraca for setting what the doctor ordered ... a decent pace.

Lonhro a champion [yeah, like Collingwood] ? Champions win the championship race. What excuses this year, a bit of late rain ? He should stick to sprint races in Sydney where their jockeys didn't have a clue how to show him up and kept handing him races on a plate made to measure. The Cox is no such Plate.

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 08:00 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 08:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 15:13 ]

It really cracks me up that the media is now crowning Fields Of Omagh Championship status.

A bridesmaid in the big ones before yesterday and yet suddenly "we have a new champ"

Please!

Let's analyse this for a moment with pure statistics and leave emotion out of it.

Prizemoney before yesterday:
Lonhro $4,134,080
Fields $1,227,890
Defier $2,106,750

Lonhro on top with more prizemoney than the other two combined. If they are very good horses, what's Lonhro?

Wins before yesterday:
Lonhro 22 from 29
Fields 9 from 24
Defier 9 from 28

Lonhro clearly on top with more wins than either of them and a much higher strike rate than the two of them put together.

But wait there's more :smile:

Fields : NEVER won at Grp 1 level before yesterday.
Won one Grp 2, one Grp3 and two LR.
Won at Moonee Valley before.
Beaten by Roman Arch, Exceed and Excel, Yell, Magical Miss and Northerly.
Never raced in Sydney.

Defier : Won 2 Grp1 races, 3 Grp2 and one LR.
Second by a length at the Valley behind Northerly.
Beaten by Lonhro 4 times, Northerly, Fiery Venture, Spinning Hill, Gordo, Excellerator and a heap of horses never heard of again.

And then we have Lonhro - no champ they say???
Beaten by Defier twice, but Lonhro beat him 4 times.
Also beaten by Grand Armee and Northerly.
Never won at the Valley.
Winner of 8 Group1 races
Winner of 9 Group2 races
Winner of 1 Group3 race
Winner of 1 Listed Race.

So what's the conclusion?
To crown Fields Of Omagh a champ because of one win on a track that suits is laughable.

Lonhro still has far more accumulated prizemoney than the others even after yesterday.
Has won far more races at group level than the others combined.
Has a far superior win strike rate.
Still has a better record against Defier.
And beaten by Grand Armee and Northerly - no slouch.

The ONLY area that Lonhro falls down at, is he just doesn't like Moonee Valley.

Lonhro is still the champ regardless and the stats prove it.

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2003-10-29 21:03 ]

Lonhro with that much money might make him a good capitalist but definately no champion. Some punters are just a bit desperate for anything they can call a champion.
$$$ do not a champion make or if they do Rupert Murdoch is a "champion" Australian [who just lives in the USA at the moment].

FOO is no champ but better than the rest on the day in one of the weakest Cox plates ever. Won by a horse who has never won a group 1 says it all about the comp. and everything about Lonhro's ability beyond 1600m. in truely run races.

Ho hum, roll on the Melbourne Cup !

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-26 17:52 ]

[quote]
On 2003-10-26 15:43, Chrome Prince wrote:
It really cracks me up that the media is now crowning Fields Of Omagh Championship status.

Defier : Won 2 Grp1 races, 3 Grp2 and one LR.
Second by a length at the Valley behind Northerly.
Beaten by Lonhro 4 times,

Beaten by Defier twice, but Lonhro beat him 4 times.

Still has a better record against Defier.

The ONLY area that Lonhro falls down at, is he just doesn't like Moonee Valley.

La Mer: Chrome Prince - Defier has beaten Lonhro home as many times Lonhro has beaten Defier. The score is 4 each and not 4-2 in Lonhro's favour. Defier has finished second in two Cox Plates while Lonhro has managed a third in two Cox Plates.

While I've got no doubt that Lonhro is the better of the two, the difference may not be as great as you indicate - perhaps they will meet again when both horses are at their peak fitness, as both in its autumn campaign earlier this year and during its current campaign Defier has had fitness concerns.

Your comments re Lonhro not liking the Valley are well off the mark - nothing at all to do with the Valley, the fact was Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn yesterday and once again could not sustain his run in a pressure race - it has happened twice now, yesterday and in the Doncaster Handicap when Grand Armee clearly outsprinted him in the run home.

If Lonhro did not handle the Valley then he simply wouldn't have been where he was at the turn, one length off the lead, but he was and while excuses can be made the facts are that in probablity he will retire to stud next year without ever winning one of the major races in Austrlia and therefore will not go down as a memorable champion. Good he may well be, but champions are made of sterner stuff.

I was comparing when one of the horses won a race, it matters not to me if one horse finished fourth and one finished second.



Interesting take you have there.
How can my comments be way off the mark when clearly he didn't stretch out as normal after rounding the home turn.
It is the only (to my knowledge) banked track in Australia and some horses just do not perform well on certain tracks.

The fact that Lonhro is a superior horse, is indicated by he was where he was rounding the home turn IN SPITE of not being able to run at his best on the track.

We seem to be concentrating on the pace of the race etc etc

2003 Cox Plate Time:2:07.61 last 600 38.48
2002 Cox Plate Time:1:26.30
2001 Cox Plate Time:1:25.80

So it was one of the slowest Cox Plates and had Lonhro been able to handle the track, it would have been a different outcome.

Each to their own.

Are we all forgetting Northerly's defeats to lesser horses:
Freemason
Grand City
Republic Lass
Mr Trickster (a provincial specialist)
Yell

He failed to ever win a race in Sydney, and yet he is branded a champion???

Lonhro cannot be considered a Champion. He simply has not made the grade, can't handle true presure. Has he won a Slipper, Derby, Doncaster, Cox Plate, Australian Cup, Caulfield Cup, Melbourne Cup, Hong Kong Cup, Dubia Cup, Japan Cup? NO NO NO

Fields of Omagh, coming back from a career threatening injury,on a limited preparation and to tough it out at the end of the plate shows true qualities of a Champion.

Lee Freeman you're a Champion trainer.

Like in all sports to be crowned as a Champion you have to win a Championship eg. Wimbledon, Champions League Cup, Rugby World Cup, Premierships. You can win as many races or matches as you like but if you don't win the ones thst count then you cannot be considered a Champion.

Lohnro reminds me of Collingwood, Cronulla Sharks, Chelsea, English Rugby Team etc.

Hmmm 2 Yalumba's, 1 George Main, 1 Mackinnon, Chipping Norton, Darley,Queen Elizabeth, Caulfield Guineas etc etc.



So Fields Of Omagh is a champion after winning 1 Group 1 race????



:lol: :lol: :lol:

He may well be - but Tony McEvoy trains Fields Of Omagh.

Chrome Prince,

Lee trained the CC winner, I was comparing his tough times with F.O.O. and to pull out a big one when it counts is the sign of a Champion.

F.O.O has only one Group 1 but it is the one that counts.

Lonhro would have been a Champion if Lee trained him. Lee has won ALL THE BIG ONES.

"Lonhro did not stretch out as normal" La Mer wrote [?]

And what is "normal" stretching out ? Normal for Lonhro is to get it all his own way without pressure and then do what he does best, a short sprint and in that department he really is a good horse.How good we will never know due to poor comp.

Lonhro's fuel tank in the Cox was empty when needed and from the best barrier and with the best Sydney Jockey in the race, there were no excuses. If it had been a 1600m does anyone believe he would have lost at MV ? It was not the track but the distance that was the problem.
Hawkes would say "unsuitable race" not unsuitable track. When Hawkey was asked last week if he thought Lonhro a champ, he avoided the question by saying "lets see if he can win the Cox". Hawkes has always doubted Lonhro's "genuine" ability beyond 1600m.
In his regular feature in the Winning Post were he rates all his Saterday starters [worth a read], there was one horse missing any mention or comment. Lonhro. Hawkes knew the game was up unless Lonhro had a huge amount of luck and privilege [Sydney style] in the race and his only excuse in loosing was that he didn't get it.
Champs need other champs to prove themselves against and Lonhro just didn't get that chance in his winning races and now never will. His group 1 wins and $$$ account for ziltch in the Championship dept.

Cheers.

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-27 08:01 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-27 08:03 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2003-10-27 08:05 ]