AFL home grounds...

[Mr J]

Ok guys, this is really annoying me.

What are the home grounds for each Melbourne team?

When one Melbourne team plays in another Melbourne venue, should it be classed as an away or a neutral venue?

[sportznut]

I think that's one of the very annoying things about AFL. There basically aren't any genuine home ground advantages between two Melbourne sides any more. They all seem to play at the MCG or Telstra Dome. Carlton used to have a good home ground advantage at Optus Oval, but they are now going to give that up also.

Some teams may play better at the MCG or better at Telstra Dome (eg. St Kilda), but basically, you could call almost all games between Melbourne sides 'neutral'.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sportznut on 2004-08-21 00:58 ]</font>

[moeee]

Dirt with grass on top.
Home ground advantage should be renamed to plain,"Ground Advantage".
It's to do with the shape and size of a ground that determine whether the ground will suit the teams playing style.
The only Home Advantage that a team gets is the number of supporters that rock up to influence the umpires decisions and perhaps support team moral.

I look at the situation this way:
If Melbourne were playing Geelong at the MCG as a Home game they would get a bonus of 6 points.4 points for ground and 2 points for supporters.

If Geelong were playing Melbourne at the MCG as a Home game then neither team gets a bonus.Maybe 4 points for supporters to Geelong cancelled by 4 points ground for Melbourne.

[sportznut]

If Geelong were playing Melbourne at Skilled Stadium though, that's definitely a home ground advantage.

[mug punta]

It's just another reason why the AFL is a flawed comp. The interstate teams get 11 home games, and except for derbies it's a 4 goal headstart in most cases.
The melb teams have no home ground advantage against other Melb teams

[gum stumpa]

On 2004-08-21 09:43, sportznut wrote:
If Geelong were playing Melbourne at Skilled Stadium though, that's definitely a home ground advantage.




yep as history suggests

_________________


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gum stumpa on 2004-08-21 09:51 ]</font>

[moeee]

So what we need Mug Punta is to send 2 Melbourne teams every week to Darwin to play so they have some real away games to make it fair to the Interstate clubs.

Geelong V Melbourne,Skilled Stadium.
6 points for Ground and 4 points for supporters makes a 10 point bonus Sportznut.

[sportznut]

On 2004-08-21 09:49, mug punta wrote:
It's just another reason why the AFL is a flawed comp. The interstate teams get 11 home games, and except for derbies it's a 4 goal headstart in most cases.
The melb teams have no home ground advantage against other Melb teams


Yeah, but on the other hand, interstate teams also get 11 AWAY games too. Because of all the neutral Melbourne games, teams like Collingwood, Essendon etc usually only have to play 3 or 4 genuine away games each year. The rest are all played in Melbourne.

[sportznut]

On 2004-08-21 10:01, moeee wrote:
6 points for Ground and 4 points for supporters makes a 10 point bonus Sportznut.


That's exactly the same bonus I would give for that game. I'd usually give a higher bonus for Geelong playing against an interstate team though.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sportznut on 2004-08-21 10:13 ]</font>

[mug punta]

On 2004-08-21 10:10, sportznut wrote:

On 2004-08-21 09:49, mug punta wrote:
It's just another reason why the AFL is a flawed comp. The interstate teams get 11 home games, and except for derbies it's a 4 goal headstart in most cases.
The melb teams have no home ground advantage against other Melb teams


Yeah, but on the other hand, interstate teams also get 11 AWAY games too. Because of all the neutral Melbourne games, teams like Collingwood, Essendon etc usually only have to play 3 or 4 genuine away games each year. The rest are all played in Melbourne.

Spoken like a true Qlder, Sportz.
I know that there are problems for all teams with the current system. But, it's funny how all interstate teams bar the crows are vying for the 8 and last year all of them made the 8.

If for my arguments sake, they do have a 4 goal adv at home they will win 8-9 of their 11 games. It means they only have to win 3-4 of their 11 travelling games to play finals and only win 1/2 their away games to have a top 4 spot. Looks like a fairly big advantage to me

[moeee]

And that's the thing about mechanical systems.How complicated would the program be.
All the data is in our heads,(not yours Mr J,not being an AFL follower for long),from watching many many games and rational thinking lets you come up with a bonus or penalty.
Tell you what Mr J.Here's my advantages for Round 22.Use them as you wish.
Collingwood 4
Richmond 10
West Coast 8
Brisbane 14
St.Kilda 14
Adelaide 6
Essendon 4
Geelong 8

[sportznut]

On 2004-08-21 00:42, sportznut wrote:
Carlton used to have a good home ground advantage at Optus Oval, but they are now going to give that up also.


Today's game is a good example. At a more neutral venue, you'd have to tip Melbourne but at Optus Oval, Carlton are playing out of their skins. Why on earth do they want to give up that advantage???

[Mr J]

I'm just make all games between 2 melbourne teams neutral.

[moeee]

Mr J.I'm sure you know very well if you are trying to frame a market,then an innaccurate market is worse than no market at all.
If you can't decide on how much to give a team,then give them a couple of points at least for the crowd support.
Could make the difference between winning and losing.

[Mr J]

It's not that I don't know how much to give each team. What I'm looking for is which melbourne teams have a genuine home advantage vs other melbourne teams. To do this I just need to look at how teams perform specifically at that ground.

E.g, if Team A is strong at TD but Team B isn't, then Team A should get the home advantage. If Team B was just as strong at the same ground, it should be classed a neutral venue.

[sportznut]

Mr J, if you take a look at the results of the last few years, you may get an idea of which teams have done better at which venue, but here are just a few observations:

St Kilda are BRILLIANT at Telstra Dome. 20 from 23 in the last two years, including the last 15 in a row!!! Up until this year, Essendon were also terrific there. Not so good this year, but two of their losses were to the Saints. As I said, Carlton are the only Melbourne team with a genuine 'home' ground these days, and I think they are definitely much harder to beat at Optus Oval. Don't know why they want to give that up. Melbourne are usually harder to beat at the MCG than at the Dome.

By the way, Geelong play some of their games in Melbourne and some at their real home ground Skilled Stadium in Geelong. They're certainly tougher at Geelong.

[mug punta]

The Blues have to move sportznut, because the pricks at the AFL are giving them 4 million to move to the telstra dome.
They are currently, financially well in the red.
It's a crying shame but the AFL is a big business these days and as a proud Melbournian it's sad to see the loss of our final suburban ground.
A lot of my best memories as a kid were going to Windy Hill to watch the Bombers or Moorabin with the old man to watch Plugger and Winmar destroy the opposition, but, unfortunately standing on the terraces sinking a cold one is a thing of the past.

[sportznut]

Really think the AFL should have spent some money helping the clubs upgrade all those suburban grounds, so that at least a few games each year could be played there.

[mug punta]

No arguments from me.
I still stand when I watch the Dons at the telstra dome, but it's just not the same!

[moeee]

Well Telstra Dome is a very good example.
St.Kilda and Essendon both play well there.
But for me,if they played against each other there I would still give the home team a 3 or 4 point bonus for crowd support.

[Mr J]

Mo, why give crowd support advantage? Just because it's an official home game, that doesn't mean more of team A's fans will turn out than team B.

[mug punta]

Thats not actually true Mr.J because most supportes buy an 11 home game m'ship package which entitles you to only go to home games and a lot of these members don't go to away games even if it's played at their actual home ground. That sounds a bit confusing doesn't it.