are we forgetting Northerly's 2 cox plates beating the best field ever assembled last year. Beating the great mare and a brillant 3 yo the year before. are we forgetting NOrtherly's caufield cup weight carrying record(22 years). are we forgetting northerly's 2 australian cups the first in course record after travelling 3 wide the trip and winning by 3 1/2 lengths. No we are not forgetting those.

His loss to freemason - he broke the course record, payne slaughtered him, he took off 1100 from home and lost by a lip. i can forgive him.

His loss to republic lass - beaten on his merits.

HIs loss to grand city - fred kersley sent out a search party for northerly and P. Payne. shocking ride. got clear 100 out with 60 kg 's and stormed home.

Mr trickster - 9 kg pull in weights on wet track. weight will stop a train.

Yell - champion sprinter, it was a fitness run for northerly he ran the quickest last 600 of the race and again was ridden poorly by payne. had he been up the front he would have won.

now lonhro was beaten by SPORTSBRAT and royal courtship and true jewels. Have we forgotten these defeats - no champions there.

HELLO GUYS
IT HURTS ME TO SAY THIS BUT I ARGREE WITH CRASH.IT WASNT THE TRACK OR THE RIDE. LONHRO JUST DOES NOT HAVE THAT TURN OF FOOT WHEN THE PACE IS ON.BUT HE IS STILL MY FAV HORSE.GOOD WIN FOO.
CHEERS

Hilarious!

Why can't we compare the same things and argue along the same lines instead of chopping and changing to suit.

1. It was said that the pressure of the race did Lonhro in.

Incorrect. The Cox Plate was the slowest for some years with a dismal last 600m.

2. I didn't say Northerly wasn't a champ, but surely if you're going to make excuses for his defeats, why can't the same be done for Lonhro?

3. My point was that Northerly did not handle the Sydney way of going just as Lonhro did not handle the Valley.
Yes, Northerly lost by a lip to Freemason, which is an indication of his heart, just as Lonhro was beaten only a length in a race on a track which did not suit him.



Normal stretching out is having a fluid action and normal stride, if you think Lonhro's stride was fluid and normal in the straight, then you weren't watching the same race I was.

Now we have people declaring Fields Of Omagh a champion after one Group1 win :roll:

Let's be consistant in the argument at least.

_________________
"The man who can correctly assess Class can have all the money he wants and he only needs a dollar to start". - Pittsburg Phil

[ This Message was edited by: Chrome Prince on 2003-10-27 12:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Chrome Prince on 2003-10-27 12:52 ]

Champ or no Champ.... I sure wish I had a share in him.... and is there anyone on this list who wouldn't?

Before this start... 29 starts winning $4.1Mill.... Personally, I wouldn't care if he was the ugliest horse that no-one loved... cos if he were mine I'd sure love him - and he would be a champ to me.....

Just a different look at things.

Cheers,
Chris.

My final proof that it wasn't the pace of the race that did Lonhro in, nor the race distance - suspect beyond 1600m, I think not!

25/10/03
2040m Cox Plate Time:2:07.61 last 600 38.48 Track-MV

11/10/03
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:22.3 Track-Caulfield

3/5/03
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:24.8 Track-Randwick

2/11/2002
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:22.6 Track-Flemington

26/10/02
2040m Cox Plate Time:1:26.30 beaten out of sight track-MV

12/10/2002
2000m winner Lonhro Time:1:20.60 Track-Caulfield

I still think Lonhro is champion, look at the past 4 start pre CP. s1111 and now a s11113
What I looked at is how long can a horse, a animal go and keep getting those 1's along side their form.
Who knows, perhaps next preperation may tell a different story. Still, I put it doen to endurance and in this case many punters should have been the wiser on a s1111 form. The media blow it all out of proportion.
How about some of you re-do your form study and ratings, assume Lonhro was scratched.
I bet there will be a different set of favs and FOO would stood out, mine would have Clangalang 1st and FOO for 2nd had I assumed Lonhro scratched.
Still, I sayed out of betting that race. I would have put even money on each. I now wish I had !
Oh well...

After reading the posts regarding Lohnro, I believe he is a great horse but not yet a champion. After watching the race on the weekend I was reminded of a horse that doesn't get mentioned so much these days when talking about Cox Plate winners. Lonhro this year was presented with a very similar task to the one that Better Loosen Up was set when he won the Cox Plate. The only difference being is that one is a champion whilst the other is a great horse.

When Better Loosen Up won the Cox Plate he was more that 20 lengths off the lead that was set by Savage Toss and Stylish Century at the half way mark. Hard ridden from about the 1000 meters, Better Loosen Up cornered 3 or 4 wide around the turn to defeat the likes of Sydeston, Super Impose, Canny Lad and more to win in what was at the time the fastest Cox Plate in history. A time it took Might and Power to beat around 10 years later. Whats more is that next start, Better Loosen Up went on to beat some of the best in the world in the Japan Cup. He came back next spring to win the Australian Cup by five lengths without being hard ridden. Whilst being prepared to take on the best races in Sydney he was injured in trackwork. Now in my mind, that is a Champion!!!

You can debate that he probably should have won another Cox Plate a few years later if it wasn't for severe interference where he finished 5th. A protest was lodged 5th against 2nd and it was upheld which gives you a bit of an idea about the interference he received.

Better Loosen Up won a similar amount of career prizemoney to that of what Lonhro has won to date and he raced nearly 15 years ago.

Nevertheless congrats to Fields Of Omagh for a well deserved win even though I didn't back him.

Good Luck to you all with your punting over the next week or so. I think the cups king looks set to add to his tally.

Sound analysis there Fishbones.

If Fields Of Omagh wins the Japan Cup, I'd be flabbergated, in fact if he finishes within 3 lengths of the winner I'll change my signature to "Fields Of Omagh - Houdini"

Bit slow at the office today, hey Chrome ? :smile:

Just because Lonhro moved up to challenge at the turn does not mean he handled the track...as people have already mentioned it was one of the weakest Cox Plate fields and so we would expect Lonhro to be close up to the winner even if we knew 100% that he didn't handle track.

E.g - If Lonhro raced over 2040m at M.V against Class 6 horses and we knew 100% that he doesn't handle M.V surely we would expect him to still win the race!!!!!



Notice how both races were run just after rain had fell and that Lonhro was 3 wide in the Doncaster and still finished 5th or 6th and that day at Randwick was totally bias towards leaders.

I wouldn't call the last 600m of those 2 races as sprints home, both were one of the slowest 600m's in both races previous history.



Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought every Group 1 race in Australia was a major race regardless of the amount of prizemoney on offer.