Yep, i get it. same bet but with a different name for singling the banker. We call those "key"'s and "wheels"(using all the field) or "part wheel's"(partial runners in the field) over here. EXample $1 ex box part wheel (the 1 with 2,4,6,8)=$8 as long as the 4 finishes 1st or 2nd and the 2,4,6,8 finishes 1st or 2nd, you get the exacta. IN an all wheel, as long as the 1 is 1st or 2nd you hit automatically but want a long shot to cover your investment. I like the idea of finishing w,p,s and getting a payout for duet as I always get split 1st and 3rd anyway. I actually saw some ice divs on the TAB? site last night. I seem to remember an experiment with that kind of wager at Churchill Downs in the early '90's. Thanks